private school costs - can average earners afford these?

[coffeeforone]

On the back of a recent thread taking about very cheap private school it got me wondering. If we pay £1500 per month for nursery fees, as most parents in the area do, can we afford private school long term? The fees mentioned in the thread were so much less than this.

Is it an option to consider if we don't get offered our top 3 choices of state primary and are not happy with the school the LA offer?

Currently looking at schools for DS next September, I don't think any of the parents at DS's nursery are considering private education, and neither are us? But I'm now thinking why not? I have done no research at all on independent school costs, I just thought they were well out of the reach of average earners, maybe I'm wrong?

It is potentially doable if you don’t need to do it for secondary but I think it would be a really tough transfer from private to state even if it is an excellent one. I’ve always had the view that once I enter the private system, I’ll be there for the duration which is why for me I want to focus on secondary.

We did have similar thoughts to you- early years prep being comparable to nursery but then when we factored in the holidays, the costs became far higher and locally, the holiday clubs seem to be tied to the state terms and not the private ones. We’d need a mixture of temporary nanny, holiday clubs etc.

The difference between nursery care and pre prep and prep school fees being negligible is why we started on the prep route. Once in the system we were so happy with our children's education and well being we were prepared to put up with all the sacrifices it entailed:

-not very good cars
-one cheap holiday a year
-no treats, entertainment, meals out
-not much spent on clothes etc.
-birthdays and Christmas the only times we had extras
-no Christmas presents for parents
-budgeted food and so on.

Many of our pleasures were free or effectively free anyway: reading, walking, art galleries and museums, National Trust days out and suchlike.

We did not have to pay for extras like sport or drama and there was a real wrap round extra curricular schedule. Also, there were second hand uniform shops for both children and the before and after school care was cheap and/or free. They children had access to proper language tuition and studied traditional arts and culture. Trips were educational and very worthwhile (except the skiing trip for the rich kids.)

The prep school ethos was to get the children up to old 'O' Level standard by year six and they did that with both of our children who passed the eleven plus and entered state grammars at eleven.

You can imagine the savings we made when we stopped paying the fees. Used to living at a lower rate, we piled the extra money into the mortgage. That has changed our lives.

I can't say we ever regretted our choice and I was only a teacher. My DH had a better paid managerial job but we were nowhere near the level of affluence of some of the parents. We took plenty of no notice of the financial excesses of the other parents and our kids seemed unharmed by the difference. When they hit grammar school they met a complete social and financial mix of pupils and that did them good too. I'd say, OP, go for it.

We thought about this a lot. When DS was 1 and 2, we paid £1000 per month, which is roughly the cost per annum of decent prep schools around here. But then when he was 3, we got his 30 free nursery hours and suddenyl we were paying £500 per month. And now he's at school, it's £200 per month for wrap around care. It's hard to imagine going back up to £12,000 per year, though we could afford it (just!). And I'm not sure we could afford to do that for another 14 years. If he seems to be struggling, we'll revisit it.

You need to look at the cost of after school care and holiday clubs - add that on to the fees and then see if you can afford it.

Private school terms are very short. There’s at least 20 weeks of holiday to cover. Holiday clubs are pricey. Plus there aren’t many holiday clubs open in the weeks when private schools are off and state schools are still in term time.

And after school care - yes they finish later but 3.30 rather than 3, not working hours. Our school does after school club but it’s extra and only till 5.30.

Oh, and at my sons school, school dinners were extra (depending on the number of weeks in the term, £300-350) but still compulsory (the school was small enough that even a relatively small number of packed lunches would make staffing the service non-viable). The meals were better quality than my son had experienced at a state secondary though, so that’s something!

The one by us is
Recption class £2600 a term, opens at 8am until after 6pm if needed
Rises to £3200 a term for year 6.
Wrap around care included, and meals too.
You have to pay for outings and uniforms extra.

Yes, if the parents are willing to make sacrifices.

My brother went to a private school. Mother was a teacher and father a shop worker, so probably below average earnings. They afforded it by not having holidays every year and running a relatively old car.

I know a self employed plasterer who sent his son to a private school, and he wasn't a high earner, just a plastering contractor working on new build estates. His wife was a teaching assistant.

But depends on the school - there's massive difference in pricing between the average private schools and the elite ones.

In both the cases I mentioned above, the parents sent their child private because of crap state alternatives (i.e. "requires improvement" schools with high turnover of staff, crimes, bullying etc)

There was a very cheap private school local to us. It went bust, because they just couldn't carry on!
If you are thinking about sending your dc to cheap private school, I think it's better to send them to state primary, and spend money on ex-curr activity or private tutor. Cheap normally means limited resources. I just don't think sending them to mediocre private primary makes much difference, unless you have particular reason not to send them to 30-1 state primary.

Everyone’s priorities are different, but this is how we are looking at it. I started my two DC in the state sector but then moved my two - the second moved only last year. I recognise we are lucky to be able to do this and we can’t quite afford from income so have a small inroad into our savings each year, which we can afford. It meant various sacrifices - we no longer take foreign holidays, all UK holidays are cheap (camp or stay with family and friends), we are in a very small house, but just big enough, etc. We meal plan strictly, we don’t splash out on consumables, etc. We buy uniform second hand only which you have to plan for, we don’t do all the “extras” (no music classes, no holiday trips, etc). But it works for us, and in some ways is good, and in others is not good - every choice in life has upsides and downsides!

I work in the private sector and think it can be worth it and can be affordable for average earners dependent on the sacrifices you want to make. If you get assigned a LA school that really is terrible , it might be worth it if not, save the money towards a private secondary, where the additional experiences and low pupil staff ration really comes into it's own.
Private education can be really great but I personally think there's a lot to be said for using the money for tutoring, nice educational family experiences and savings.

You are clearly high earners, not average at £26k each , so your question does not make sense.

it is doable cos I did it! My son started in year 7 and stayed til he was 18 then straight to university.If you look into it often there are bursaries available to help financially.My son passed the entrance exam and loved his time at school and although he is 29 this year he looks back on his time at school with affection.And to sound a bit shitty it has really paid off for him.We were both on mediocre jobs and it was a struggle at 15k a year back then but so so worth it. I couldnt have afforded to do it from prep stage but year 7 onwards was do able, we managed with help from grandparents too they paid about 30% of it which was a huge help.If you can do it I would everytime.

It would be the commitment for me. The pressure of having to cover fees for at least 7 years.

If somebody lost their job or became ill then that pressure - potentially having to move that child out of their school - would be tough.

We looked into this at secondary for one of our two. Our combined income was £50k (we had savings to cover 2 years of fees) but we decided against it.

We had a great primary and I can't imagine my two having had a better education anywhere else. The local comp was not so good but they are both at grammars now.

If I had to choose private for one stage it would definitely be secondary, which is also 2 years less of fees (excluding 6th form).

But choose carefully whatever you do. As with all schools there are no guarantees that just because it's private, the school is 'better' for your child.

I have had two DD's in top indies in Surrey at the same time. The fees were "only" £1,300 each per month, on a single salary. It is doable. This covers most costs, inc. meals, access from 8am - 6pm, and all sports clubs, but obviously not trips or uniform.

PP who said they couldn't afford it on £200k is astonishing, but then perhaps they don't want to sacrifice other spends.

I know plenty of "middle income", I know this is not real life middle income, but for the purposes of this discussion, on about £80k to £100k, who have two or three at private schools. It can be done, but you do have to budget carefully.

Sally, OP is looking for primary. I have no doubt private secondary would worth the money, but I do question if primary does too. But on the other hand, if you can afford it, why not.

Don’t base your figures on that other thread. If the OP is correct then that school is a very unusual exception to the usual rule.

It’s doable if you send them to private school in year 10. That means only two years of school fees

Arthur Interesting that you know of people on between £80k and £100k who send three dc to private school. I would really like to know how they afford it. We could not send two dc and are on a similar income.

Our mortgage is high - bought 2008
We spend over £600pm on travel costs
DS has tutor costing £60 a month
DC attend drama class £100pm
Spend £400 a month on food shop - bring lunch to work
Childcare is £900pm

You can put their name down for a private anyway until you see what state school you get.

As others have said there is a lot of extras including longer holidays which uou will have to get care for. It is probably doable but then think what else you could do with the money -
Retire early and help them some other way (eg start a business, childcare)
Invest in their business
Pay for uni or further training
House deposit

In my case we decided to defer the decision for a year and I'm glad we did as I have been ill and I am a bit worried about my job and I have realised that it might not be a good idea to commit to something that wouldn't be manageable on one salary unless you have substantial savings. I've realised anyone can be made redundant or get ill and I'm not sure it would be worth the risk of having to move them

I have no doubt private secondary would worth the money, but I do question if primary does too

There are simply no absolutes - it isn't possible unless you're speaking from a point of knowing where the OP is, what state schools are available and what private options htere are.

Faith50
I don't know the fine details of these friends, obviously, but we all seem to live life similarly, and we managed two:

Lowish mortgage
Mostly local businesses so no/low travel
No need for tutors
Drama £100 per term
Food, we spend higher, but I don't compromise there
No childcare
Never buy new cars
Few holidays, mostly low cost, not every year
Don't spend much on clothes, or other luxuries

We are happy with our choices, but others would choose differently. I have other friends with DC's in state schools, who have an amazingly high lifestyle. We all seem to be happy with our choices, so that's what's important.

Yes - one child, used to be in nursery, both work (DH FT, me 60%) both professional but Midlands based and reasonable income not high.
For me, I always believe anything is possible you just have to work out a way of achieving what you want so: free or cheap holidays in UK with friends / family / camping / Travelodge, only buying clothes in the sale or really really need them, no extravagance - by no means difficult.

Only you can work out if you can afford it as you know your income, expenses and the fees of the school you’re considering - asking if others can afford it won’t help you.

Only apply to the private school if you think it is best for your child - if the local school fits your child better, apply for that. Both my brother and I were educated at an expensive independent school. I thrived there, but it didn’t fit for him (he never went, even when boarding), so my parents sent him to a more local secondary school and he did so much better.

As an example of costs, my children have attended an independent R - 12 school since Reception (currently in Year 3) and fees are just over $20,000 per child per year (though I get 10% discount for one twin), plus uniforms, extra curricular sports etc so much closer to $24k each a year. The fee increases with each year level, plus the approximate 5% inflation increase. This fee includes all year level camps, excursions, swimming lessons etc, however foreign language trips (required when studying languages) are extra, as are overseas aid trips and ski trips. The aid trips and ski trips are optional, but most students apply to participate. Before/after we school care is also an extra cost. Basically the cost will continue to rise yearly, so make sure you factor that in when making your calculations.

Arthur
However much we cut corners, we could not free up £12k to £15k a year - perhaps £3k to £4k!

I would say 'no' for average earnings. Are you being genuine when you talk about 'average' earners?

The average UK full-time salary was £35,423. For two working full time that's £70,212 gross - £4,368 per month after tax with an allowance of just 5% pension contributions.

Once you start deducting mortgages, bills, etc. I think NOT.

My DH and I take home a little more than this (although I work part-time) - this is a summary of our outgoings. We have a nice quality of life, we aren't extravagant but we do have luxuries because we can afford them.

Mortgage, Council Tax and Life Insurance £1,568
Utilities and TV Licence £176
Home insurance and breakdown cover £38
National trust, Amazon, Netflix,Sky £92
Sofa Repayment £50
Food £750
Cleaner £150
Window cleaner and ironing £70
Kids activities £105
Pocket money £10

Total £3,009

Surplus £1,359

Sounds like a lot. But...

Childcare (3 days CM and wraparound care) £850

Surplus is now £509

Oh yeah, car and fuel £150
Savings (ha!) £150

£209 left over for general living, clothes, going out etc.

We are really fine and comfortable day to day but we have no substantial savings and earn in excess of the average.

We could now afford private school.

And here's the funny bit - I work for an independent school and get a substantial discount. I could afford to send ONE of my sons. And only to prep.

On average salaries it is NOT affordable without special circumstances (no mortgage, significant bursaries etc).

You need to be earning I would say in excess of £100k between you for it to be a consideration.

The caveat is that I live in London so of course that skews things somewhat.