private school costs - can average earners afford these?

[coffeeforone]

On the back of a recent thread taking about very cheap private school it got me wondering. If we pay £1500 per month for nursery fees, as most parents in the area do, can we afford private school long term? The fees mentioned in the thread were so much less than this.

Is it an option to consider if we don't get offered our top 3 choices of state primary and are not happy with the school the LA offer?

Currently looking at schools for DS next September, I don't think any of the parents at DS's nursery are considering private education, and neither are us? But I'm now thinking why not? I have done no research at all on independent school costs, I just thought they were well out of the reach of average earners, maybe I'm wrong?

The big question is how guaranteed is your employment.

If you are relying on income to cover fees then if you lose your job you face two options:

1. Take another job quickly rather than hold out for the best position.
2. Remove your children from the school.

With Nursery fees then if you're unemployed the children can stay at home with you, not an option once they start school.

So....if you have 2 children then you need circa £20K extra sitting in savings to cover any periods without income....or rich grandparents.

I know plenty of friends who send their children to private school, they either earn over £200K or it's paid/partially paid by Grandparents (which is the majority).

However....we have excellent local state schools whose result those of private schools. The ones who have benefited are those who've been in bottom sets in state system who've benefitted from small class sizes in private.

@EmilyBicchieri

I applaud your honesty in being committed to independent education but admitting no experience of state education.

I'm state educated, I've had senior business positions and started and ran my own business. I've met many, many successful people. Most were state educated (I'll confess I don't mix with those in Bankers, who from stereotypes might swing it a bit). Unfortunately a Private Education is no guarantee of success (neither are qualifications but that's a different conversation).

Private education has it's place, but going without in your old age isn't worth it when there are excellent state schools in the UK. Both my kids were A*A pupils for both GCSE and A level and are now at Russell Group Uni's.

My son is in private. He is 4 and has a class of 16 rather than 30. He is a very bright and has been reading, writing and speaking by the age of 2. His fees cost 1200 a term that's sept to Christmas, Christmas to easter, easter to end. He gets stationery and lunch. It may cost but we are a normal working class family. We want whats best for our son and for us this is.

@BertrandRussell the very poor don't get them because they don't apply. I work at a private school and most in our area do a great deal of work with local primaries to get the most able to apply regardless of income. They have full bursaries for the poorest students but they do not apply.

What are these government funded bursaries? Never seen these offered since the assisted places thing in the 90s

“@BertrandRussell the very poor don't get them because they don't apply”

And if you gave them one they’d only keep coal in it.......

To my mind, private education is an option, if you can afford it why wouldn't you get the best for your child ? Remember, if you do it for one child you will have to do for any subsequent children. With smaller class sizes and improved opportunities it's for sure the better choice. My children both experienced private for a few years, it proved to be a good experience for them both and cemented in good studying habits for use later. They were boarders and we alwasy said once they decided they wanted to come home then they could. This happened, and after 3 years each they returned to State education. The skills they learned as a result have helped them a lot. E.G. they were more independent than their peers, with things like getting ready for school, homework and such. If you can do this I don't see a negative. They adapted so easilly to state school, made friends easier, etc, etc. Go for it.

I'm sure I remember that state educated kids tend to do better at uni & approx 60% of kids at Cambridge are from a state background

The very poor don't receive bursaries unless it's government funded

This is not the case at any private school I have been involved with, they are INDEPENDENT, they do not take a penny of govt money, unless you are talking about an army subsidy, and some don't encourage those either. Bursaries are fully funded by the school.

The big thing to consider is what would happen if your income fell for any reason. With nursery you can drop out without too much drama, not so with school. Most of the kids at private school will be taking advantage of the extras- music lessons, sport, trips. Will your child be the only one in class who can't? I have several friendswith kids at private schools and there is a lot of pressure on them just because there are so many extras and none of them are cheap. On the netball team? This years tour is Australia. Musical? the choir are going to South Africa. Arty or into drama? lovely trip to a theatre school in New York or to see art galleries in the US.

Stop with the trips!!!! Mine have never been on a single trip! Vary few go on the south African sports tours. I think mine went to ypres.

The local state school kids wanting money to go on 5k World Challenge is what is cluttering up my Facebook timeline atm!

The school my children attended had entrance exams so a place there was highly fought over. Not sure what type of selection process there was at 5years.
Certainly in the city I live in the private schools vary hugely in quality so just paying fees doesn't guarantee a superior education.
We sacrificed hugely to keep ours there and they did achieve academically but in the scheme of things I now think we should have moved into a more expensive area and sent them to the local school.

My experience, nc for this
Ds, went through independent school about 30% of pupils from his very well known, high achieving school get some kind of financial help with fees. This is means tested and you have to tell them if you have any changes to finance. We had a joint salary of somewhere around £50k and we received a 90% bursary. The school was and is fab, all food and after school activities are included. Day fees were £21k we paid £2.1k.

My experience in looking for a school that suited him was that the more expensive the fees the more help you could get. One school we looked at told us they had very little take up on bursaries that year.

There was an entrance exam to senior school, all but one child from the prep school got in.

These schools have charitable status and have to offer bursaries as part of that, but they don’t make this information too easy to find.

Ds had a wonderful and rounded education and is, like his peers a very confident, articulate and well spoken man. It’s not what we originally wanted for him, but he needed small classes and the extra attention provided. We made some sacrifices in holidays and stuff. Uniform was not cheap and he didn’t go on some of the big trips. When we were awarded the bursary it was on condition that it was kept private, nobody knows who is and isn’t in receipt of help. Scholarships are awarded for academic and music talent, they are not worth a lot in financial terms but are big source of pride.

We have been tempted by private school if DS doesn't get into our chosen state school.
Ideally though I think the best place for him would be a good state school. Dh and I were both state educated and we achieved the grades we needed for our chosen careers. My concerns about private school is that he would only be mixing with children of well off parents and in fact would probably be one of the poorer pupils there. I want him to see all sides of life, I want him to realise that multiple holidays a year is not the norm and mix with children from all walks of life.
A lot of people say 'If you can afford it why wouldn't you?' But I don't think it's as simple as that. I do completely understand why people make that choice though.

Rizzoli
His fees cost 1200 a term
... that's incredibly cheap for a private school. Do the fees go up massively as you go up the school?

Mine have done prep then state secondary. I felt no guilt whatsoever in moving them to an outstanding comprehensive. Our reasons for moving was because we couldn’t see where we were going to get £250k worth of added value per child by staying in private. They might have played a few more sports matches and maybe my totally non musical children might have had a term of clarinet lessons before they quit but it wasn’t compelling enough a reason.

I’ve been proved correct, eldest just got straight 8’s and 9’s in GCSE and every one of their friends exceeded their predictions and every day I’m happy I feel delighted I saved my cash.

Yes I'm sure mine would have done well at gcse at state. That's not really why they are at private though.

Anecdotally, and at the outstanding state v private near me, there's a much bigger difference at A level. Mine are bright but not outstanding academically and I trust the private school to get the best A levels possible. Dd1 ledt private for state 6th form. She loved it, loved being with 'normal' people, but she would have done far better at A level had she stayed at private. Even she admits this, but hey ho, she's happy and made it to uni.

ucfo..fully agree if you have to struggle don't bother...we sent our two to a top boarding school as it had no material impact on our cash flow.

answerthequestion..i don't know of anyone who sent their children to a top private school to get better exam results....i sent ours to get a broad exposure to people outside of a narrow local catchment area..they got the exam results as well..but that was an add on, as their subsequent career successes have not been built on exam results....

Typically private school is £6-8k per year at the infant age group but it increases, secondary prices from year 6 at £10k + even here in the Midlands

trewser so what if yours haven't been on the trips, that's your decision and I'm sure you are comfortable with it. It's still something people need to be aware of so they can think about whether they could cope with either saving up or saying no. Because they will have to make that decision, so best to be aware of it beforehand and trips are just the easiest identifiable extra.

Ps you are not average earners! The average household income in the U.K. is £26k per year which after tax is under £2k per month, nursery fees are not affordable!

countrygirl99

My point is that very few go on the trips and they are easy to say no to.

There are expensive trips at state school as well!

I could hardly ever persuade my 5 to go on the private school trips. One went on a rubgy tour of Italy when he was about 11 or 12 and he said it was a theft of his half term. One was a wonder swap with a school in somewhere like China but even that one did not tempt them. Most children don't go on most of the trips in the 4 fee paying secondary schools ours have been at.

I also agree it is nothing to do with buying A level results (particularly as plenty of private schools are directed at the less bright child and you certainliy cannot get high results for those who are not too clever whatever you do to them). it was a whole raft of other things I liked (and I could afford it out of income).

It's a personal thing and a very good debating subject!

I would recommend weighing up your personal goals (your housing/mortgage and pension aspirations, your age, health, income, stress levels, your time to add to your kids education).

Also weigh up results from your local schools.

We are doing it slightly differently - had huge pre school costs (twins! then3 under 3) so ended up with a nanny. Now older kids in state primary school, nanny is now part time (and will get more part time in the future) with the aim of saving the difference between full and part time nanny costs as a slush fund for private secondary. But we are in a good state primary/tough state secondary area. We are both earning mid £100k (I could go up another 20% if I went back full time) and have some investments and promotional prospects in the future so we think putting off til secondary will hopefully work out.