Do you judge mothers who don’t breastfeed?

[HarryHarry]

I’m sorry - this is long.

For medical reasons, I was unable to breastfeed my son, so I was determined to do so with my daughter. Having tried it for a few days, I must say that I really, really dislike it, to the point that it’s starting to affect my mental health. It’s not just the pain and the discomfort (I know they will eventually disappear). There are other reasons, which are too complicated to go into here. I haven’t decided yet whether I will stop, but I don’t think I feel passionate enough about it to force myself to keep going when I hate it so much.

The only thing that’s stopping me is the judgement of other mothers. The thought of giving up is making me feel so incredibly guilty - like I’ve failed as a woman and a mother - mostly because of how much they go on about it. Today I went out for a walk with my two children for the first time and a woman I only vaguely know from baby groups came running out of her house to talk to me. At first I thought she wanted to see the newborn but actually she just wanted to lecture me about the importance of breastfeeding. Even though I lied and told her it was going really well, she still wouldn’t leave me alone. She made me feel utterly shit for even contemplating formula-feeding and ruined what should have been a special day with my children.

So I have two questions for you... Do you judge mothers who don’t breastfeed? If so, help me understand why. Why is breastfeeding so important to some women? Why do they feel so strongly that other women should do it too? (My husband thinks they just don’t want other women to have choices they didn’t have but I am not that cynical). What will I be missing if I decide to stop?

Actually @jennymanara I think that what likely happens to most children whose mothers can’t breastfeed them in the developing world Is not that they are wet nursed but that they die or are left malnourished from being given inappropriate food (boiled cows milk, sugar water, etc). Certainly where I was living when I was translating had a very high infant mortality rate. Breastfeeding was openly done and certainly had no stigma (you would see shop assistants, waitresses etc breastfeeding at work). But formula would have been expensive for the average person.

But you’ll be glad to know they’re not getting formula at least. No, if they can’t breastfeed, they just die.

Sometimes people close to the mum will tell her directly that she can't breastfeed because of what they have observed. Sometimes even HCPs.

Sometimes it's indirect, "he can't want to feed again?" "he should be sleeping through by now"

Sometimes it's subtle but the perception that there are large numbers who can't do it. Lots of people saying things like "he was a different baby on formula" "my milk just didn't come in" (within 12 hours) can make women doubt themselves especially combined with formula being normalised.

“ All women in Finland can’t breastfeed any more than anywhere else. It’s just more crap put out by the breastfeeding mafia.”
No it’s not- it’s fact. The overwhelming majority of women in Finland who want to bf do.
And don’t say breastfeeding mafia. It makes you look foolish.

but who is telling anyone they can’t breastfeed? Who?

Formula companies did a brilliant job of telling women they couldn't breastfeed. Before their advertising waawas regulated they made women who could breastfeed feel their milk was insufficient by stating that if baby couldn't go 4 hours between feeds or sleep through the night that their milk was insufficient. They turned cluster feeding from something normal in to a sign of insufficient milk. They suggested that breastfeeding would stop women being good wives as they wouldn't have time for housework or their husbands as breastfed babies were clingier.

They did all of this so well that it was taken in to the collective subconscious and women now believe these things as 'fact'.

Of course some women can't breastfeed, some can't make sufficient milk and some don't want to breastfeed but there are others, who due to the nefarious actions of formula forefathers believe that they can't, when what they experiencing is normal and healthy.

Yes I judge. I'm giving an honest answer. Would I make a comment about it. Absolutely not.

No if they can’t.
Yes if they won’t.

@zsazsa I know they just die. I am a very long way from anti formula. But I also know that wet nursing would be a safer option to promote to those communities.

When people are easily able to sterilise and buy good quality formula, then women should do what is best for them.

@yeahthatthing A lot of the stuff promoting bf says nothing about cluster feeding. It is all aimed at making bf seem as easy as possible. There needs to be more honesty.

1. Expressing too early is damaging, rather than beneficial to supply
2. Most (I would say all, but there are always exceptions) women have no, or very little milk until the 3rd day after the birth.
3. It is perfectly normal and safe for a healthy normal weight baby to lose weight over the first few days/week.

If these three facts were more widely known, more women would be able to bf

jennymanara definitely needs to be more honesty. I guess they think if they're honest very few will even try.

@betrand - someone saying the “formula companies have pulled a fast one on us” after trying to assert that formula wouldn’t do a starving baby (which was starving because it’s mother couldn’t breastfeed) any good isn’t trying to engage in any sort of serious discussion. Also tbh is there really any point in discussing nonsense like that. Women who can’t easily or who dont want to breastfeed can feed their children formula. It’s not a conspiracy. There is no discussion to be had there. My, and many other women’s struggles are real - they cannot be ignored because you or anyone else has a conspiracy theory.

I can certainly agree that we shouldn’t tell women they can’t breastfeed. We shouldn’t tell them that they can or should either or make them feel awful because they can’t. Or tell them some rubbish about how their baby will end up autistic/fat/stupid if they don’t.

But yeah, def happy for no one to be telling women they can’t either.

@BertrandRussell - what do you base that on? How are those “facts” stopping people breastfeeding? What evidence do you have for that?

I do think that the advice from the NHS (and NCT but I did get good buddies) is terrible regarding birth and post partum care. I wonder if it would be better if it was more dr led.

I would say though that I’m a lot more sceptical of advice from HV/midwives due to my experience.

@BravoStrong

Wow I'm shocked as to why you have referred to no change in his body?! What relevance is this?
We made the baby together and we will feed and bring up the babies as a team. Why would I push my husband out of being a dad and breastfeed our babies alone?
Becoming parents is special for us both and we can learn and share the experience together.
Any other questions?!

@Yeahthatthing I agree, they try to make it seem easy so that more women try. But that just means the reality is a shock to many women and so they give up. Counter productive and probably increases the rate of pnd

How are those “facts” stopping people breastfeeding?

Incorrect information surrounding establishing a supply is obviously a major negative.

HCPs pushing formula because “baby has lost weight” etc.

We absolutely should be massively concerned when the people closest to a new mother in terms of those providing care aren’t giving correct information.

@jennymanara - tbf he was a volunteer dr and the quickest way to save the baby’s life was to give it formula (there was an ability to boil water). There was no particular wet nursing tradition locally, perhaps promoting one might be a good idea but to be honest, I imagine that there are significant practical barriers to having someone else breastfeed your baby. I think it’s likely more practical to give them formula but like I say, in that area pretty much everyone had access to a gas heater to cook and boil water.

@JacquesHammer - what I mean is that how do you know those are facts and how do you know those are stopping women breastfeeding?

@ zsazsajuju

You are misquoting outrageously. You are also completely ignoring all the women who desperately want to bf, don’t manage to and are made miserable. The statistics show that many of these women may well be able to with better support. I think your disregard for them is shocking, frankly.

Breastapo

zsazs - bot paid for by big milk?

“ what I mean is that how do you know those are facts and how do you know those are stopping women breastfeeding?”
They are facts because that’s what facts are! And at least one women on this thread was told she had to give formula because the baby was 12 hours old and she had no milk yet.

@JacquesHammer - tbh maybe they do need formula if they are losing weight though. My friends HV told her not to take her baby to A&E as the drs would tell her to give her formula. I’m not at all comfortable with ignoring dr advice.

She did of course take her to A&E and did give her formula and the baby did put on weight.

Breastfed both babies. It wasn’t easy either time. I absolutely don’t judge women who don’t want to. It’s their choice.

Yes, I will be honest, I did sometimes ponder about why (if you were able to) you wouldn’t just breastfeed, from an ease perspective, as I personally found the idea of judging amounts of feeds, sterilising bottles etc overwhelming.

But, just as I recognise that the idea of FF is overwhelming to me; the same can be said for other women in regards to breastfeeding.

I teach secondary school children. Not a fuck could I tell you the difference between the babies who had received BF vs FF.

Ah- those are the facts because those are the facts! Thanks for that.

tbh maybe they do need formula if they are losing weight though

Losing weight post birth is absolutely normal. It doesn’t indicate as a given that breastfeeding isn’t sufficient.