Do you judge mothers who don’t breastfeed?

[HarryHarry]

I’m sorry - this is long.

For medical reasons, I was unable to breastfeed my son, so I was determined to do so with my daughter. Having tried it for a few days, I must say that I really, really dislike it, to the point that it’s starting to affect my mental health. It’s not just the pain and the discomfort (I know they will eventually disappear). There are other reasons, which are too complicated to go into here. I haven’t decided yet whether I will stop, but I don’t think I feel passionate enough about it to force myself to keep going when I hate it so much.

The only thing that’s stopping me is the judgement of other mothers. The thought of giving up is making me feel so incredibly guilty - like I’ve failed as a woman and a mother - mostly because of how much they go on about it. Today I went out for a walk with my two children for the first time and a woman I only vaguely know from baby groups came running out of her house to talk to me. At first I thought she wanted to see the newborn but actually she just wanted to lecture me about the importance of breastfeeding. Even though I lied and told her it was going really well, she still wouldn’t leave me alone. She made me feel utterly shit for even contemplating formula-feeding and ruined what should have been a special day with my children.

So I have two questions for you... Do you judge mothers who don’t breastfeed? If so, help me understand why. Why is breastfeeding so important to some women? Why do they feel so strongly that other women should do it too? (My husband thinks they just don’t want other women to have choices they didn’t have but I am not that cynical). What will I be missing if I decide to stop?

Breastfeeding didn't go smoothly for us to start with. DD couldn't latch at all until six weeks and couldn't get a proper feed till 12 weeks, but I pumped to keep supply up until she could. I will say that there didn't seem to be much knowledge in the local breastfeeding community about exclusive expressing or how possible it is to keep going even if your baby struggles at the start. Most people seemed to think that if she didn't latch in first few days then that was that. Happily it was important enough to me to persevere and while it was tough, at 8mo PP we are still going. But you need to be passionate about it IMO. If you go in half-hearted then the first sign of difficulty will be a reason to stop. I am just incredibly stubborn!

I had my first baby earlier this year. I was adamant from the start that i would formula feed. However my DD arrived 10 weeks early and ended up spending 6 weeks in NICU. Only a couple of hours after i had given birth (emergency c-section), and before i had even met my baby (as she had to be taken away as soon as she was born), a midwife literally thrust a load of equipment at me for hand expressing and told me i must get started straight away. I was so overwhelmed given the events of the last few hours and the fact that i hadnt even met my daughter yet, and i just burst into tears. I said i was planning on FF and she said 'oh okay' then proceeded to tell me how i really should try to breastfeed because of how early/ill she was.

A couple of other midwives/nurses said the same and i ended up feeling very much guilted into it. As it turned out, my milk never came in due to giving birth so early. I took meds to encourage it to come in (which didnt work) and expressed every 3 hours. Pumping produced nothing, and it would take 10 mins of massage & another 10 mins of hand expressing just to get 1ml at best. It was absolutely soul destroying. I was setting alarms in the middle of the night to get up to express, and one day i just thought, WHY am i doing this to myself when I am producing so little? So after a few weeks I stopped and took the opportunity to catch up on rest instead. I gave it my best shot, but the pressure i felt under from the hospital staff to BF was awful.

Meant to add to my post - no i dont judge mothers at all. Formula feeding was the right decision for me & my baby (even though I ended up not having a choice). And anyone who wants to breastfeed- thats great as well!

I think research in somewhere Scandinavian -maybe Finland?- shows that 95% of women can physically bf. Obviously that says nothing about not wanting to. It just shows that with the proper support 95% could if they wanted to.

@celebelly that is a really incredible and encouraging story. I have heard very few BF success stories of women exclusively expressing when their baby can't latch. It gives me hope if history repeats itslef wiht my second baby. My first experience was more similar to @rainbowcakes

bertrand

I wish I had known number 2, certainly. I was told in hospital I must feed every 3 hours, but the baby wouldn’t latch and even the midwife squeezing my boobs and scratching a syringe over my nipples for ages yielded hardly any colostrum. So they told me to give her formula.

I did then start breastfeeding and kept it up for 3 months or so but frankly I always felt on the back for regarding supply and was topping up with formula.

I appreciate it wouldn’t have affected the baby’s bad latch (I had great support with this but I just couldn’t sort it), but it did stop me ebf when maybe I could have if I hadn’t stressed about baby not having enough milk when she was first born.

(Number 2 being that most women have hardly any milk just after giving birth)

@DrAllCome

There are several studies.
m.dw.com/en/breastfeeding-rates-too-low-in-developed-countries-unicef-says/a-43727348

Infants are more likely to be breastfed at least once in low and middle-income countries
Bhutan (99 percent), Madagascar (99 percent) and Peru (99 percent) have the highest nursing rates, Ireland (55 percent), the US (74 percent) and Spain (77 percent) have some of the lowest rates

@IrishMamaMia There's a FB group called Back to Breast for women who are in that same situation. I found it helpful for giving me a bit of hope when there were times I thought she would never be able to do it. In her case, she just had a tiny mouth and needed to grow a bit, but no one in the hospital really explained that. They just kept trying to force her on even though she was physically unable and was just screaming in frustration, and the staff daily turnover was such that we rarely had the same midwife or assistant twice so we would have to explain the whole thing again, and they would say 'Oh we will get her on' and then proceed to try for an hour with the same results

1) Expressing too early is damaging, rather than beneficial to supply

I didn't know that - in fact when milk was slow to come still wasn't there day 3 in with first - community MW came regularly and told us if pfb wasn't feeding I should be pumping to get milk in. Baby had lost over 10% of weight - so I think they were worried.

It worked milk came in and everything was fine - though without community MW support I'm not sure I would have continued bf or bf subsequent children.

Next babies lost no weight or put in on in first weeks - over next months they gently dropped down the centile charts and the panic this generated and pressure to top up or switch to ff from HV was immense and very unhelpful. In fact I knew few mothers who switched to ff due to that pressure.

I suspect the belief that large numbers of women can't BF must make mums doubt themselves when their baby is going through a fussy growth spurt. I'm not convinced there is something that means more women in Britain "can't make enough milk" compared to Finland or wherever.

Thanks for letting me know about this @celebelly wish I knew about it at the time as our experience in hospital was similar although latch was affected by facial palsy in our case. However I'm in a much better place to make use of this kind of info this time round and have a breastfeeding counsellor :)

pooboobsleeprepeat
”I would however do anything in my power to give my own child human milk and not bovine milk made from a baby cow.
Cows have to to be impregnated and birth a calf to produce milk, we then use this milk to feed our children and put in our tea- it’s weird!”

Pregnant and breastfeeding vegans MUST supplement with B12 to avoid nutritional deficiencies in their children which can be very serious. This can be vitamin tablets or fortified food where the intake has been calculated as sufficient.

The vegan society website states:
“Infants typically show more rapid onset of symptoms than adults. B12 deficiency may lead to loss of energy and appetite and failure to thrive. If not promptly corrected this can progress to coma or death. Again there is no entirely consistent pattern of symptoms. Infants are more vulnerable to permanent damage than adults. Some make a full recovery, but others show retarded development.

The risk to these groups alone is reason enough to call on all vegans to give a consistent message as to the importance of B12 and to set a positive example. Every case of B12 deficiency in a vegan infant or an ill informed adult is a tragedy and brings veganism into disrepute.”

www.vegansociety.com/resources/nutrition-and-health/nutrients/vitamin-b12/what-every-vegan-should-know-about-vitamin-b12

Breastfeeding does not guarantee complete nutrition.

Breast is not always best. If mum would be happy formula feeding but is depressed and overtired by breastfeeding this will affect her interactions with baby. Baby is better off if mum is happy.

Those studies are always going to be flawed though because the majority of women wouldn’t put themselves forward for medical investigations at what is the most vulnerable time in theirs and their baby’s life. Added to which there will be the women who have already chosen not to breastfeed who wouldn’t be interested in taking part in such a study anyway.

Added to which, can people not see how judgemental it comes across when women who say that they didn’t produce milk are told that they likely could produce milk and that they could have BF if they’d actually wanted to?

I think that what is most important here is that no-one should feel that they have to justify themselves to anyone else with regards to their feeding decisions or reasons for wanting/not wanting to BF/ff.

The very fact that women seem to feel that they should have to add a justification to the reason why they didn’t breastfeed is a very clear indication that women do feel judged and that they feel they should be explaining themselves.

And that is backed up by the comments on here from those who are saying they judge those who “didn’t want to try.” Why would anyone feel that it was any of their business why someone was bf.

If a woman got a bottle out in front of you would you actually say anything? Because if you would then that says a lot more about you than them.

I suspect the belief that large numbers of women can't BF must make mums doubt themselves when their baby is going through a fussy growth spurt

Yep - if you've got family and HV even GP telling you to switch I think it does make it harder to ride out.

One said to me I didn't get was that as they had a toddler they couldn't bf through growth spurts - I didn't get it as I did that couple of time myself and they had local family support and I didn't- but maybe that was is again. If your family is telling you your neglecting your toddler by bf maybe it makes it harder to get through the growth spurts not easier like I'd assumed.

I didn’t breastfeed my son as it just wasn’t for me. I had a terrible pregnancy, a terrible birth and I just wanted to go back to being ‘me’ and having my body be my own. My friend was trying to wean her 1 year old off the breast and she was really struggling so that put me off even more. I’m happy with my choice and I don’t believe I should have to justify it

Never wanted to, wasn’t going to be bullied into it by anyone either!!
My DD is now 14, rarely ever poorly, no allergies and as strong as an ox.
The women I judge are the ones who are cruel, abusive and neglect their children

I wouldn't want to make anyone who says they couldn't produce enough milk feel judged on the individual level but it's an uncomfortable truth that some of these women won't have had anything physically wrong with them.

Some of these women who wrong believed they weren't producing enough will go on to become the DMs and MILs who say things like "are you sure he is getting enough? Maybe you should give a bottle" which perpetuates this belief that large numbers of women don't have enough milk.

@DoctorAllcome thanks for your posts on this. Super interesting and balanced. I can tell you actually know the research. What about extended bf? From what ive seen, studies seem to differ in terms of what they take to be duration of 'extended'. Any good meta analysis of effects of extended bf you d recommend?

@SnuggyBuggy that's simply not true . I've recently been a listening ear for a friend who is struggling breastfeeding her first and I have been very careful not to say anything about my experiences with formula as I know she can and will make BF work, she's just going through a tough patch.

you look at BF research in developing countries, you'll see about 99% of women can breastfeed successfully

Not really. The BF studies report that 99% of living babies are breastfed in developing countries. They measure babies breastfeeding not mothers breastfeeding. Two different populations and rates. Let’s break this down.

1. Around 2-12% of women cannot breastfeed. In 1st world, they feed their babies formula safely so right there you have a 88-98% BF rate. But in a developing country, the babies are still breastfed because relatives of friends act as a wet nurse so for a developing country you still have a 100% BF rate.

1. Some number of babies cannot breastfeed. This differs by 1st world and developing country because we have surgery to correct hare lips, tongue tie and they usually do not. So, in the 1st world a number of these babies will be formula fed safely and others breastfed. Doesn’t matter. What really matters are the babies in developing countries who cannot breastfeed. A mother has three options. Manually express milk feeding methods or substitute milk or formula. All carry an extremely high risk of death. So while many babies will start down this few survive past infancy and thus we have a BF rate of 99% of babies in developing countries, with the 1% being these hardy survivors.

I'll be honest, yes I do if there's not medical reasons not to, up to around 6 months at least. I have a particular issue with those who then claim coupons for free formula cans. It's free and after 4-6 weeks it's so much easier than bottles.

A few women cannot breast feed, a few need to go on medication that's not compatible, not talking about these.

“ Added to which, can people not see how judgemental it comes across when women who say that they didn’t produce milk are told that they likely could produce milk and that they could have BF if they’d actually wanted to?“
But how do we deal with the issue that many women who have been told they can’t bf could if they got proper information and support?

I'm not convinced there is something that means more women in Britain "can't make enough milk" compared to Finland or wherever

No I don't either, it's obviously down to support and I know breastfeeding rates are very high in Norway - well into the 90% range.

There's no right to judge but there's definitely no right to judge if the right support doesn't exist.

it's an uncomfortable truth that some of these women won't have had anything physically wrong with them

Probably true but don't blame mums and mum-in-laws. It doesn't help when a midwife is telling you that your baby looks yellow and if you don't get your finger out and feed him (properly) soon he'll be back in hospital. As I said in my previous post, I ended up getting any old milk (not normal cow's milk!) into him any old how. Breast, expressed (the pitiful amount I could express) and formula. When I was trying to get him to latch on I would sit there for at least 10 minutes with him bobbing on and off the breast until finally he'd latch on. He did catch on eventually but my milk never really came in properly. Once he was 4 months old I was giving him a bottle half an hour after breastfeeding him and that was when I decided to stop trying.

I wasn't too much better according to my mum, but she just ff from the off.

I didn’t breastfeed because of a certain medication. But to anyone else I would’ve looked like I hadn’t tried. I didn’t want to get into ‘without the meds I will die, but they’re not safe for my baby’ so when people used to ask ‘are you breastfeeding?’ Which was a lot I just answered with no. Because it’s my body, their judgement is their issues.