To think Upfield Global (Flora marg) can get stuffed for calling mumsnet a hate site?

[Toorahtoorahaye]

No more Flora for me, they’ve just announced they’re having nothing to do with the hate site mumsnet. mobile.twitter.com/StopFundingHate/status/1182647264046669824

I can see their point. I find it really hard to recognise my women friends (who were told they were male from birth and have since corrected that) in the vitriol on here.

I have deep concern about the transing of children and statements like this, inferring that humans can change sex, may be seen to be socially kind yet are deeply harmful. Telling children that their sex is only “observed” or “assigned” leads to the lie that their sex can change as well.

And yes, I think calls of “transphobia” have been devalued so no longer affect me when me saying that sex should be prioritized over identity in certain areas such as sport, refuges, changing rooms, prisons etc - gets me called transphobic and a Nazi

I want to know when they're going to stop working with all the other sites who cheerfully allow racism, sexism and homophobia.

I suspect I'll be waiting a long, long time.

There is disrespect and incivility on both sides

Oh please. There is absolutely NOTHING like this from women who do not agree with transideology.

terfisaslur.com

And never has a women threatened to kill, rape or inflict violence upon a transactivist. But the other way round is a regular occurrence. And only one side has actually carried out a physical attack on the other.

www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/transgender-activist-tara-wolf-fined-150-for-assaulting-exclusionary-radical-feminist-in-hyde-park-a3813856.html

And I know that transactivists instruct us that women's words are violence, as is our unwillingness to sleep with them, but why anyone is still giving these misogynist arguments house-room, is beyond me.

It is not violent if I tell you that I don't fancy you and don't want your penis anywhere near me. It is not violence if I say something you disagree with. My words and my sexual boundaries, are not equivalent to your fists.

Can't believe I need to even state this tbh.

And yes, I think calls of “transphobia” have been devalued so no longer affect me when me saying that sex should be prioritized over identity in certain areas such as sport, refuges, changing rooms, prisons etc - gets me called transphobic and a Nazi

I feel this. I would be mortified if someone accused me of racism or homophobia. I would check what I had said and think carefully about it.

But I have seen that the bar for transphobia extends to people pointing out that lesbians don't have, or want to have sex with, penises. And that women are adult human females.

So those accusations have become water off a duck's back to many people. And that is a shame.

What I see here is a lot of well so and so on the TRA side did this terrible and awful thing, so it’s fine for us to behave in this awful way towards trans people,

Really? Where?

There are plenty of real actual mners, not involved in deplatforming, campaigning, banging on windows or other activism etc,

That reads suspiciously like an implication that there are MNers who are involved in these things. Campaigning - fair enough, that's something all sides of this debate do, quite legitimately. But deplatforming and banging on windows - those are TRA tactics. Shows us a MNer or any feminist who has done or supported these things

Flora refusing to work with Mumsnet because it is apparently hateful.

I don’t think Flora said that mn is a hate site.

In any case, my point here is that whilst MNHQ says they keep the discussion here in this site respectful and civil, lots of their users don’t see it that way, and there are very valid reasons for that.

You can try to excuse, defend or rationalise the hostility and prejudice in this site by pointing at things that happen elsewhere, but to maintain that there is respectful and civil discussion is laughable.

Advertisers don’t like being seen alongside prejudiced and hostile content. You can hardly blame them for choosing to distance themselves from positioning that puts them on screen with it. It’s not a good look for them.

The argument that hostility here is justified by bad behaviour of some activists is not going to work with brands who simply do not want to share screen space and eyeballs with posts whose content is demonstrably hostile and prejudiced.

So in other words posts don't get deleted and are left to stand if no-one actively reports them.

There is an entire bloody army of Eyes dedicated to scouring MN to report even the most ludicrously minor perceived infraction. FWR is the most closely scrutinised of all. MNHQ have commented on the crazy amounts of bad-faith reporting in the past.

So your claim that there are unknown numbers of guideline-breaking posts just lying about for hours/ever can't be true. Or they're posts that don't break guidelines. In that case, you just have to lump it.

So in other words posts don't get deleted and are left to stand if no-one actively reports them.

There is an entire bloody army of Eyes dedicated to scouring MN to report even the most ludicrously minor perceived infraction. FWR is the most closely scrutinised of all. MNHQ have commented on the crazy amounts of bad-faith reporting in the past.

So your claim that there are unknown numbers of guideline-breaking posts just lying about for hours/ever can't be true. Or they're posts that don't break guidelines. In that case, you just have to lump it.

the thread [trans people at work] as a it still stands cannot be described truthfully as respectful towards trans people.

Why should this person be afforded "respect" when they are entirely lacking it themselves - incessant badgering and inappropriate proselytising is disrespectful to everyone there!

Mum of a trans kid, love MN, love FWR, rarely see what I'd consider transphobia, do see a lot of intelligent discussion around the conflict of rights between women and transwomen. Do not consider any FWR posters a threat to my kid. Leftist UK GC feminists rock. MN rocks for allowing women to speak on issues that directly affect them.

Flora, otoh, is gross, and my vegan dd agrees.

Advertisers don’t like being seen alongside prejudiced and hostile content. You can hardly blame them for choosing to distance themselves from positioning that puts them on screen with it. It’s not a good look for them.

Advertisers want to make money. Flora have decided that being “woke” will work well for them. I don’t think it will, the demographic they’re coming against are the adult human females, who, while being socially kind and inclusive, also don’t want men in their changing rooms, in their sport, in their refuges.

I wonder which demographic actually does the most grocery shopping?

What I see here is a lot of “well so and so on the TRA side did this terrible and awful thing, so it’s fine for us to behave in this awful way towards trans people, and here, take a look again at this awful thing this one trans person did, since this thread is related to a random trans person who has done nothing remotely similar.”

There are plenty of real actual mners, not involved in deplatforming, campaigning, banging on windows or other activism etc, who object to the way trans people are referred to and discussed in THIS site.Plenty of people for whom it has nothing whatever to do with silencing women, but everything to do with challenging what we perceive to be increasing transphobia here on THIS site

Same here

Janes ❤

Advertisers don’t like being seen alongside prejudiced and hostile content. You can hardly blame them for choosing to distance themselves from positioning that puts them on screen with it. It’s not a good look for them
Agree

what we perceive to be increasing transphobia here on THIS site

But that's only your perception, not an incontestable fact.

The long and short of it is that it is MNs ball and they can decide the rules of the game.

If you or I don't like it, that's our tough luck.

Flora and Stork are now banned from my house. Trying to silence women is so retro.

And never has a women threatened to kill, rape or inflict violence upon a transactivist. But the other way round is a regular occurrence. And only one side has actually carried out a physical attack on the other.

See, I don't get this argument! "We're all only just women and can't be bad as we've never threatened to kill, rape, incite violence...."
Why is it an either or?!
YES, not dipsuting those listed above is abhorrent and never tolerable - there's some disgusting shit gets posted here but "we're only women telling it like it is, why can't we?"
It goes beyond with some posts self ID concerns.
There's some posters that try to tar all trans people with some kind of out for sick kicks brush and that's never OK.

Thank you Justine. Great statement. (Haven't posted on MN for years but this virtue-signalling nonsense has annoyed me enough to return!)

On a more practical note, I do buy a lot of Flora Buttery because it gives a lovely texture to a spongecake without tasting like plastic.

Can anyone suggest a decent alternative as I am now going to boycott the buggers (and I make a lot of cakes so I buy a fucktonne of the stuff on a regular basis - hopefully that will have an impact)?

Butter alone doesn't cut it for a decent lemon drizzle cake - makes it too heavy. I've tried supermarket own brands but haven't found a decent dupe as yet. Would love some suggestions :)

It’s hard not to think there is an irrational, dishonest, sometimes downright stupid narrative being pushed - and I’ll call it out if I want to. There are folk out there working to make this the only accepted narrative.

I'm all ears.

Jesus, these threads seriously really are like the Brexit boards lol. "I'm all ears! Why you against Brexit?! I weeely weely wanna no. Honest." Somebody bites.... haaaa, lol, as iffff, slappy back with mates..... It's the same obsessed mindset. Bonkers

and I’ll call it out if I want to

Yeah, so will I.

Well it works both ways doesn’t it?

Flora don’t want to be associated with MN because they think the discussions are not acceptable. I think they are vital and so am going to choose to boycott flora.

I’m not sure I’m ever going to sit quietly and let a producer tell me what I can or can’t say, so we are probably incompatible.

From Wikipedia their brands are,

“Upfield's notable brands include Flora, Stork, I Can't Believe It's Not Butter, Rama, Country Crock, Becel, and Blue Band.[9]”

@Lovecat try replacing quarter of the fat with the same weight of yoghurt.