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To think Upfield Global (Flora marg) can get stuffed for calling mumsnet a hate site?

736 replies

Toorahtoorahaye · 11/10/2019 17:01

No more Flora for me, they’ve just announced they’re having nothing to do with the hate site mumsnet. mobile.twitter.com/StopFundingHate/status/1182647264046669824

To think Upfield Global (Flora marg) can get stuffed for calling mumsnet a hate site?
OP posts:
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PaulRedford · 13/10/2019 12:17

Can anyone list all of the products that this company makes so that I can be sure to avoid buying any ?

Lifeof333s · 13/10/2019 12:17

A school which denies it has a bullying or racism issue is a school with a bullying and racism problem. MM and transphobia is no different.

The bullying re Transphobia happens on MN. Transphobia happens on MN. I think MN are far too weak as regards dealing with both issues and that is why we’re where we’re at.

WishMyNameWasWittyNotShitty · 13/10/2019 12:17

@wotchatalkingaboutwillis ahhh I wasn't aware of that, i just know I had received numerous emails asking if I wanted to try Flora and then mere weeks later this is all occurring!

NotBadConsidering · 13/10/2019 12:19

Exactly Zebra. Look what happens when someone accidentally misgenders someone - which is inevitable with the ways our brains see people of different sex and with multitude of posts - the poster invariably posts a “oh shit, please don’t delete me MNHQ” because of the conditioning and nervousness around the rules, and knowing there’s a team of Monitors. Even then you can still be deleted for stating reality: I was deleted for pointing out children who receive puberty blockers and cross sex hormones won’t be able to orgasm. FWR is subject to an extra level of moderation, that’s for sure.

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 13/10/2019 12:21

The TRAs still want the whole forum must be shut down, just for talking about it. Nothing, other than complete capitulation to TRA demands is ever enough

Yes baffling isn't it. I thought this observation was quite astute.

twitter.com/Feminist_Army/status/1176296952285319169

To think Upfield Global (Flora marg) can get stuffed for calling mumsnet a hate site?
Datun · 13/10/2019 12:22

MNHQ mods very frequently agree that TGs have been broken, and delete not just individual posts but entire threads based on reports from me, and from other mners.

So, in your emails, you will have all those deleted posts. Could you put say five of them up here? I understand they would have broken guidelines, but it might be useful to show what actually constitutes a broken guideline on FWR.

You can always star out some words to avoid being deleted yourself.

Aridane · 13/10/2019 12:24

Bit of a Ratners moment, I think

I really doubt it!!

zebrasdontwearbras · 13/10/2019 12:25

PaulRedford they make Flora, Stork, Bercel, Blue Band.

Lifeof - I have frequently seen racism, homophobia, disablism, across the Mumsnet boards. When reported, it is deleted. That's how Mumsnet works. Or do you think anti-racist orgs should be trying to shut down these boards because "sometimes people post racist stuff" ?

It's an open forum, and it's post-moderated. MNHQ have correctly said that they delete actual transphobia when it is reported to them. They have also said that they will allow discussion of the issues, because these issues are impacting on women's rights, and children's welfare, and so is an important topic to a lot of parents.

The TRAs don't even want MNHQ to allow the latter - and if there's any bullying going on here, it's the TRAs bullying Mumsnet.

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 13/10/2019 12:27

MNHQ mods very frequently agree that TGs have been broken

On a sheer ratio of posts:deletions, I highly, highly doubt it

HumberElla · 13/10/2019 12:28

A school which denies it has a bullying or racism issue is a school with a bullying and racism problem

No, not necessarily. But not having correct procedures in place would certainly foster a habitat ripe for it to develop.

Which is why, like MN, there are policies and procedures in place to tackle it. Nobody is denying people with shady views exist.

Schools is an interesting example actually as this is another place where there is an active push by TRAs to soften and circumvent policies that are there for the protection of children. One of the topics uppermost in the minds of women who wish to discuss it on here.

Whatthingsexactly · 13/10/2019 12:30

Seriously - try going on twitter, or an open facebook page, or tumblr, or the Guardian's Comment is censored free and saying the above.

No thanks. I like mn and have been hanging out here for a very long time. I care about this place and how it is perceived, and whether it gets ad money to keep it going as a free service.

Again, the fact that you may (or will) be unreasonably attacked elsewhere for saying you think there are issues with trans women in sport etc does not excuse the prevailing tone of hostility and prejudice towards trans people in general that has become established here on mn.

Advertisers see it. They don’t want to be on screen with it. They withdraw their marketing spend.

It’s up to MNHQ how they run their site and where they draw the line of course.

I’m sad to see their statement taking the line that discussion here is respectful when it so patently isn’t, and it’s not just activists and campaigners noticing it and calling it out.

FWR has long been abandoned to GC regulars who are deeply intolerant of dissenting viewpoints. Mnhq know this.

They’ve been trying to tread a middle line for a long time, and for an equally long time mners have been reporting posts, and pointing out to them that the tone has shifted, and hostility and prejudice have become normalised.

Now it’s becoming more prevalent in AIBU and chat threads, and more people are noticing and calling it out, including advertisers.

You can keep blaming TRAs for drawing attention to it by contacting advertisers, but to maintain that the discourse here is civil and respectful is short sighted and misses the point that advertisers don’t like being on screen alongside prejudiced posts.

PaulRedford · 13/10/2019 12:31

Thanks for the list. This is quite timely for me because my DC has recently come home from school with a list of ingredients that are required for a cookery class. One of the requested items is margarine. I will now make sure that none of those brands are purchased.

Lifeof333s · 13/10/2019 12:32

The TRAs don’t pile on on any given thread and attempt to turn the focus, belittle, scorn, twist, start supposedly innocuous threads in order to push agenda and rail....

Bullies are clever, they change tactics. MN turns a blind eye to it.

Juells · 13/10/2019 12:33

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis

If you're on Twitter though, you'd see that they didn't know about the trans issues on here before it was brought to their attention by someone and looked into it more.

Yes, over the course of a day they 'investigated' and changed their entire marketing strategy, because a few people complained to them on twitter.

Pull the other one, it has bells on it. There isn't a corporation in the world that would antagonise their core market, unless the directive had come from up above, way in advance.

They must think women are gormless pushovers.

Lifeof333s · 13/10/2019 12:35

And re schools sorry it is absolutely the case. I’ve spent my working life in schools in differing roles. Time and again the schools denying it exists are the schools with the problem.

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 13/10/2019 12:35

does not excuse the prevailing tone of hostility and prejudice towards trans people in general that has become established here on mn.....

And once more - all of that is nothing but your opinion. Not fact. Not truth. Not objective. Just a personal opinion by someone chuntering away on the internet.

I (and MNHQ) chunter away with a different one. That's how it works.

PeterRouseTheFleshofMankind · 13/10/2019 12:36

The bullying re Transphobia happens on MN. Transphobia happens on MN. I think MN are far too weak as regards dealing with both issues and that is why we’re where we’re at.

Can you define, prefably also with examples, 'bullying' and 'transphobia' please?

Do you just mean 'anything that isn't total capitulation to the idea that men can be women'?

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis · 13/10/2019 12:37

@Whatthingsexactly

Well said, all of what you just said.

Lifeof333s · 13/10/2019 12:40

It is not just personal opinion.Hmm I’ve seen countless complaints. It happens.

Frankly I’d like to see posters piling on threads and bringing up trans issues when the thread doesn’t have anything to do with it deleted.

Ditto innocuous and supposedly innocent threads just there to rant,rail and push out those who to dare to disagree. At the very least move such threads..

NotBadConsidering · 13/10/2019 12:40

The TRAs don’t pile on on any given thread and attempt to turn the focus, belittle, scorn, twist, start supposedly innocuous threads in order to push agenda and rail....

Can I introduce you to well known TRA and previously banned poster, starting a thread in FWR, and it being deleted:

To think Upfield Global (Flora marg) can get stuffed for calling mumsnet a hate site?
To think Upfield Global (Flora marg) can get stuffed for calling mumsnet a hate site?
To think Upfield Global (Flora marg) can get stuffed for calling mumsnet a hate site?
PeterRouseTheFleshofMankind · 13/10/2019 12:43

FWR has long been abandoned to GC regulars who are deeply intolerant of dissenting viewpoints.

What do you mean by 'deeply intolerant' here?

I have spent hours and hours debating this issue with posters who disagree with me on this, and I'm not even that much of a prolific poster.

Some posters have absolutely tonnes of links, evidence, all sorts in order to back up their argument. And they bring it out when necessary.

That is not 'deeply intolerant of dissenting viewpoints'. That is 'having conviction in your own argument and actually having evidence with which to back it up'.

Jeez!!!

crochetandshit · 13/10/2019 12:43

Those of you that keep blindly repeating that the transphobia and bullying on here are awful, can one of you provide one ss?

You are asked repeatedly to show examples of what you mean, and as you are so adamant that it is rife, I can't imagine it will take long.

Datun · 13/10/2019 12:43

They’ve been trying to tread a middle line for a long time, and for an equally long time mners have been reporting posts, and pointing out to them that the tone has shifted, and hostility and prejudice have become normalised.

How does this ^^ tally with Justine Roberts statement:

Last night, Mumsnet founder Justine Roberts accused the brand of bowing to pressure from 'a handful of activists on Twitter'.

She added: 'Mumsnet has turned down hundreds of thousands of pounds of advertising over the years from companies which we feel don't make parents' lives easier, so we're well used to putting purpose before profit. I do think in the end consumers will value companies which show a bit of backbone.'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7566795/Mothers-boycott-Flora-margarine-pulls-adverts-Mumsnet-transaphobia-row.html

HumberElla · 13/10/2019 12:44

Time and again the schools denying it exists are the schools with the problem

As you would expect. But then nobody here denied it exists. That’s why MN have mods. And guidelines. They are applied when necessary, which is good. They are also applied when talk guidelines are overstepped generally. This is controversial as many believe those guidelines are strict and have little to do with prejudice in use of language and more to do with keeping TRAs placated.

I believe in the saying jaw jaw not war war. Not shushing women.

Lifeof333s · 13/10/2019 12:46

Notbad the MN posters do the same with bigger numbers in a more subtle way- all in the name of feminism.

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