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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To think Upfield Global (Flora marg) can get stuffed for calling mumsnet a hate site?

736 replies

Toorahtoorahaye · 11/10/2019 17:01

No more Flora for me, they’ve just announced they’re having nothing to do with the hate site mumsnet. mobile.twitter.com/StopFundingHate/status/1182647264046669824

To think Upfield Global (Flora marg) can get stuffed for calling mumsnet a hate site?
OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
Andysbestadventure · 13/10/2019 11:29

Who still buys Flora? 😂 Or marg?? Vom. It's spreadable plastic.

Butter, lacto free butter or olive oil spread thank you!

Michelleoftheresistance · 13/10/2019 11:29

I also really hope the people coming here to tick off women for not being sufficiently civil and respectful about an overwhelming onslaught against the rights, equality of women, inclusion of women and quality of life for women led by people born male, are also ticking off those people born male for the death threats, rape threats, and all social media regarding such women which surely can't be framed as 'civil' or 'respectful'.

And certainly represents behaviour you would never see anywhere on MN.

Whatthingsexactly · 13/10/2019 11:31

Woman! Know your place. Be civil and respectful. Or else

When MNHQ put out a statement maintaining that discussion here is civil and respectful it’s not unreasonable to talk about whether that’s a valid statement to make.

Interpreting that as some sort of threat to women is a stretch. I realise it’s a standard deflection strategy, but it doesn’t hold any water.

PeterRouseTheFleshofMankind · 13/10/2019 11:32

are also ticking off those people born male for the death threats, rape threats, and all social media regarding such women which surely can't be framed as 'civil' or 'respectful'.

Of course they aren't.

Because men can do what the fuck they like, where as women have to be 'respectful'. And they get to have a go at women whilst looking 'progressive and woke' so it's win win for them.

Same shit, different day.

HumberElla · 13/10/2019 11:34

Wow so calling out bullying and transphobia is having a god complex now

‘Calling it out’ in places it doesn’t exist in any meaningful way is pretty delusional yes.

crochetandshit · 13/10/2019 11:40

Now now Humber we've already established that I am transphobic (and mean Sad ) because I think biological sex is a thing, so there's me.

I'm not too sure about others, are we allowed to talk about Karen White now?

Lifeof333s · 13/10/2019 11:41

So bullying and transphobia doesn’t exist on MN. Oh ok.Hmm

Thinking it does is delusional, right up there with those pesky posters pretending to be longtime MNers.

Bullying and denial at its best.

crochetandshit · 13/10/2019 11:44

So it is not just transphobic but bullying to ask questions about women's rights.

Asking people to provide evidence of these claims is denial.

Ok.

Juells · 13/10/2019 11:45

Whatthingsexactly

I realise it’s a standard deflection strategy, but it doesn’t hold any water.

Not a 'standard deflection strategy'. I just recognise the tired old demands that women behave nicely, and don't upset men.

HumberElla · 13/10/2019 11:47

Bullying and denial at its best

I deny that acceptance of biological sex is transphobic.
I deny that not medicating children who don’t conform to gender stereotypes is transphobic
I deny that discussion of how self ID affects the protected characteristics in the equality act is transphobic

Does the above count as bullying now too?

kaur1983 · 13/10/2019 11:48

I'm just catching up - can someone explain how this all started in the first place? Why is Mumsnet accused of being transphobic ? X

VickyEadieofThigh · 13/10/2019 11:52

kaur1983

They responded to a claim that MN allowed transphobic comments.

The claim was made by the same person who took Miranda Yardley, a transsexual (MN - that's the term Miranda uses) to court. For transphobia.

The case was dismissed and the complainant looked a complete fool.

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 13/10/2019 11:53

Buzzshit, I do take it up with MNHQ. Ask them if you want.

There's your answer then.
MNHQ clearly don't agree with your minority opinion and it's their board.

So we're back to either agreeing to stay here and accept their rules or leaving . We all have to do that same.

PS. If you are going to abbreviate my username, can you please give me the full "shitbag". I earned that insult! Grin

HumberElla · 13/10/2019 11:54

crochet yes, exactly my point. Accusations of ‘phobia’ and ‘bullying’ are both usually related to serious behaviour. By using it against anyone for absolutely any reason deemed ‘not playing by the rules I have imposed on you’ they just become meaningless.

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis · 13/10/2019 11:55

I am livid, because it is grossly unfair to lump in all MNetters with the few cunts on here who make transphobic hate posts. Seriously, WTAF? Fuming
I don't think anyone has lumped everyone in together though?
There's some reasonable middle road posters, nobody's saying you're all c**ts at all.
Just that the threads after threads do get transphobic and it does add to the general hostility towards transpeople.

Your posting name signals that you're heavily invested in the whole trans issue
I'm baffled as well as feckoffgraham as to how their username means theyre heavily invested in the issue, am I missing something?

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 13/10/2019 11:58

Wow so calling out bullying and transphobia is having a god complex now.hmm

No, the god complex here is acting like anything you don't personally agree with or like being said out loud is "bullying and transphobia", when the rest of the board, and the owners of the entire forum don't.

Hmm
NotBadConsidering · 13/10/2019 12:00

Who gets bullied?

People in the public eye?
Posters?
Who?

HumberElla · 13/10/2019 12:03

Just that the threads after threads do get transphobic

And yet you can’t define it, you can’t describe it and you can’t point to where it exists. Nor can anyone else when asked.

Meaningless.

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 13/10/2019 12:05

As an aside, I see "bullying" is the new "bigot" du jour.

Good choice, nice, solid, packed with loaded significance. Excellent selection to really try and silence people you don't like speaking.

But how long before it is rendered as utterly meaningless as the old buzzword?

(judging by the liberal spraying of it over this thread: now?)

Datun · 13/10/2019 12:05

It’s entirely possible to disagree with self ID proposals, not want intact male bodies in women’s prisons or refuges, and protest the awarding of thing reserved for women to trans or non binary people WITHOUT being offensive and disrespectful about trans people in general.

When you think reality is disrespectful, there is a huge problem.

Funny how it only works one way, too. Creating an entire class of man to whom you must be respectful by specifically obeying them and denying reality, to your own detriment? What about transmen?

We know the reason why transmen don't get included in the same way, because they're not a threat to women.

By by your stance, they should be more of a threat.

It's only about the men. We know why. But you'd have us deny it to be 'respectful.'

WishMyNameWasWittyNotShitty · 13/10/2019 12:07

Read what Mumsnetters have to say about the new Flora Light - www.mumsnet.com/talk/mumsnet_product_tests/3688404-Read-what-Mumsnetters-have-to-say-about-the-new-Flora-Light

Don't want to associate with MN, but MN users were good enough when they needed to promote their product!

zebrasdontwearbras · 13/10/2019 12:08

It is baffling - last year MNHQ brought in a whole raft of extra moderation rules regarding trans issues.

FWR is by far the most moderated forum now - misgendering is not allowed and will be deleted, posters are given a "3 strikes and you're out" rule - and yet that's still not enough.

The TRAs still want the whole forum must be shut down, just for talking about it. Nothing, other than complete capitulation to TRA demands is ever enough - it's the most 1984 thing I've seen in my lifetime. Women's language and thoughts are being moderated by TRAs who are not even members of the forum.

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis · 13/10/2019 12:15

Don't want to associate with MN, but MN users were good enough when they needed to promote their product!

If you're on Twitter though, you'd see that they didn't know about the trans issues on here before it was brought to their attention by someone and looked into it more.

BarbaraStrozzi · 13/10/2019 12:15

It’s entirely possible to disagree with self ID proposals, not want intact male bodies in women’s prisons or refuges, and protest the awarding of thing reserved for women to trans or non binary people WITHOUT being offensive and disrespectful about trans people in general.

Good luck with that one.

Seriously - try going on twitter, or an open facebook page, or tumblr, or the Guardian's Comment is censored free and saying the above. You'll be on terf-blocker and piled on and sent gifs of anime characters pointing guns at you before you can even utter the phrase "reasonable and balanced debate."

I actually agree with your view for the most part (the more I read though, the less I'm sure surgery is the distinguishing criterion; I don't want people who've been through male puberty with all the advantages in terms of muscle mass, skeletal structure, metabolism, lung capacity etc. that it conveys, in women's sport, regardless of "what's in their pants".)

99% of the time it really doesn't matter. If someone wants to wear a dress, call themselves Janet (or a man's suit and call themselves Brad for that matter), mostly it doesn't matter. It's a free country. I'd like to see people able to "present" how they want, have whatever interests they want, refer to themselves in whatever way makes them comfortable, adopt whatever ideology they want that helps them make sense of a chaotic universe (so long as that ideology doesn't impinge on the rights of others). They should be able to do all this without worrying about their employment, housing and personal safety.

There is however about 1% of the time where someone's biological sex is the thing that matters - including the issues on the list you mention, for example. And when sex matters, it tends to matter a lot. But there are whole parts of the internet where you're not allowed to say that, however politely you try to phrase it.

Whatthingsexactly · 13/10/2019 12:17

*There's your answer then.
MNHQ clearly don't agree with your minority opinion and it's their board. *

That is such rubbish shitbag.

MNHQ mods very frequently agree that TGs have been broken, and delete not just individual posts but entire threads based on reports from me, and from other mners.

Where I disagree with hq is on where the line is drawn - they consider that they maintain respectful and civil discourse, I disagree.

They are walking a tricky line, and goodness knows they get enough abuse and accusation of coercive control from FWR regulars for applying the TGs as they stand.

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