To think the carotid artery is not a porn prop.

[SmileEachDay]

This from Twitter today.

link to the Tweet

There was a post a few days back about a woman saying her partner choked her out of nowhere as she'd expressed a mild interest in S&M (mild!!) like 8 years ago(!).... he left marks on her neck, scared her shitless and could have killed her. It's stayed with me that post!

Personally I don't think there's a 'safe' way or anything about it is safe - and the people who enjoy it are people I'd avoid getting naked with!

I think the tweet is basically saying "If you are into this...try not to kill her"...which seems sensible enough

Except it isn’t. It’s not a crushed oesophagus that is the danger - constructing the carotid arteries causes unconsciousness in 20 second and death in 2-4 minutes. That is not “safe”.

Read the article I posted by Gail Dines - a much wider perspective is needed on this.

I’d like to point out that in Chloé Miazek’s case the only evidence of a ‘shared’ interest in asphyxiation came from the defence barrister who claimed that a previous partner had said she liked it.

And "he accepted that he did not get consent from his victim to choke her."

the man who killed Hannah Pearson - who was 16 - also did not have her consent to choke her. Despite this he was convicted of manslaughter. We Can't Consent To This have found 2/3rds of victims of men who claim "a sex game gone wrong" have been strangled.

Please do all read this Guardian piece on the normalisation of choking - of women - in sex
One young man who spoke to the Guardian for this piece said he chokes his girlfriend, and has done for several years, “because she likes it”. Days later, he got in touch again. “I thought about our conversation and asked her about it. She said she doesn’t actually like it; she thought I liked it. But the thing is, I don’t: I thought it’s what she wanted."

I’m failing to see how this is new thing, perhaps someone could explain

I think the tweet is basically saying "If you are into this...try not to kill her"...which seems sensible enough.

And you, or any other person that is asked to, or wants to, try choking during sex know enough about the human response to lack of oxygen to judge that you aren't going to kill, or severely oxygen deprive and cause serious damage to, another human being, whilst in the throws of sexual pleasure yourself?

Are you so confident in your own abilities to 'appropriately' choke someone without causing damage that you think there is zero risk? Would you trust someone who is didn't know what they were doing to choke you while they were about as distracted as humans can get? Really?

'Try not to kill her' is not 'sensible enough'. How about 'don't kill or hurt her'?

Thinking this is in any way a safe practice is pure idiocy.

I'm so glad I'm no longer interested in forming new relationships with men if this is considered acceptable. Years ago when women like Germaine Greer, et al were asking for equality for women I'm damned sure this isn't what they had in mind. What is the world coming to?

The SM community (as was) used to accept choking/strangulation/suffocation was incredibly dangerous - but now young women report it's standard to be choked - and you won't be asked first.

this is from 1997, from a bloke who wrote S&M 101:

We have discussed how breath control might be done in a way that is not life-threatening, and come up blank. We have discussed how the risk might be significantly reduced, and come up blank. We have discussed how it might be determined that an arrest is imminent, and come up blank.

Indeed, so far not one (repeat, not one) single physician, nurse, paramedic, chiropractor, physiologist, or other person with substantial training in how a human body works has been willing to step forth and teach a form of breath control play that they are willing to assert is acceptably safe -- i.e., does not put the recipient at imminent, unpredictable risk of dying. I believe this fact makes a major statement.

www.telecomassociation.com/pubs/chokinggamereport/files/aea3.htm

I'm going to get slated.

I love it when my partner puts his hand round my neck and squeezes. But I'm not deprived of oxygen, its just enough to be ever so slightly uncomfortable.

Nothing in my history to suggest a weird reason for why I like it. I just do. But then I am also into a bit of BDSM so I dunno.

If he tried to cut off my air supply I'd lose it

Fucking hell, why are you turning this into a feminist issue? You’re as it’s my choice as a woman to say what I do and don’t enjoy, and it’s not your place to say that I can’t possibly choose to engage in things like this of my own free will.

The tweet makes a lot of sense as a crushed windpipe fucking hurts, but intentional constriction of the carotid artery can actually feel very nice if (big if) you trust your sexual partner implicitly. We have safe words and safe signals for a reason.

Some people like it. Blame the victorians. Many men I know like having it done to them 🤷

Yes - for physiological reasons I don't understand (but did when I was at school), men get an erection

Oops, deleted a couple of words there. Was meant to say you’re contradicting yourself.

"It's impossible to control for all the variables," said Mistress Matisse, a professional dominatrix with more than 20 years of experience. "People think choking isn't kinky, but it is. People think it's a low-risk activity, but it's not. Choking isn't just about the lungs. It can affect the brain and the heart—it can affect the whole body—and if the bottom has underlying health issues, things can go disastrously wrong. I feel strongly about this."

Wrapping something around someone's neck—your hands, a belt, a rope—is the most dangerous form of breath control/play, Matisse emphasized, and simply cannot be done safely. Fragile bones (like the hyoid bone), nerves, arteries, veins—the neck is a crowded place, it's vulnerable, and putting sustained pressure on someone's neck is extremely risky.

People have died from a few seconds of being choked. There simply are no landmarks—meaning, you can't say to a reasonable degree of medical certainty that if you 'only' choke someone for 30 seconds, they'll be okay. People have died after being choked for less than 30 seconds."
www.thestranger.com/savage-love/2017/10/25/25488362/savage-love

Fucking hell, why are you turning this into a feminist issue?

It is a feminist issue.

It's a feminist issue because women are dying and being injured.

Anyone my age will remember the Tory MP who died during auto-erotic asphyxiation and the utter disbelief felt by virtually everyone else

That was horrific. A lonely and humiliating way to accidentally die (and with an orange in his mouth).

Better to have practised semi-safely with a partner. But I guess the poor repressed sod couldn't have Engaged in this type of kink with a partner

Yes - and it seems that this consensual freely chosen activity is only ever dangerous to the women.

@shwingshwing

Couldn't agree more.

For what it's worth, virtually everything 'non-vanilla' or that people may consider kinky, I have done in my adult life has been proposed/suggested by a female partner. This is purely anecdotal but my point is that different people have different (if sometimes unusual) sexual tastes.

The main thing to come from this is don't engage in potentially dangerous, or better still ANY, sexual activity with someone you don't fully trust.

...in heterosexual couples.

It's odd because the people who die alone in autoerotic situations are male in 100% of cases. (and I know this because we've researched this)

Reported and blocked. Not shared.

I’m failing to see how this is new thing, perhaps someone could explain

Erotic asphyxiation is ages old - since at least 17th century.

I guess it's the semi normalisation of it in porn that's new

I’ve just read the case studies of the women who have died. Drugs and alcohol are a factor in many of those, and many of the partners involved have a history of being abusive so of course it’s convenient to say that it was a ‘sex game gone wrong’.

I’m fully in control each and every time I indulge in this and when I want to tap out, my partner releases me immediately. At no point do I lose full control of the situation.

It’s a shame that you feel you have to tell other women that they don’t know their own mind and that they cannot consent to something just because you don’t understand it.

@shwingshwing I agree. I literally tap out if he does something that's too much or he's doing it too hard. Basically I agreed that I'm happy for him to explore his dominant side, and I'll explore my submissive side but slowly and I want to decide whats appropriate. He can't try something new without verbally confirming with me and setting the boundaries.

I didn't like having my hands bound with previous partners, but I don't mind it with him probably because I completely trust that he'll release me if I ask. I don't think I'd be okay with anyone else "choking" me but I trust him completely.

Great, so a thread about the feminist issues of choking and the murder of young women is taken over by the BDSM-bots to tell us how we’re all just so vanilla and wouldn’t understand anyway. (Including a bonus man to mansplain it all to us).

Fuck me I think my eyes just rolled out of my head.

That’s not the case at all. I’m just defending my right to choose.

@shwingshwing

Again, absolutely agree. You should never partake in any dangerous or 'edge' play with someone you don't know and trust and never under the influence.