To think the carotid artery is not a porn prop.

[SmileEachDay]

This from Twitter today.

link to the Tweet

I agree! But they were being mocked by women as a result, an odd sort of dynamic that I was frankly surprised to hear from those concerned. My own DH said he once ended a relationship because the woman he was with was very much into being slapped and he didn’t want to, she would belittle him for it. I’m not saying all those who engage in dangerous practices are without any internalised issues, but there are also plenty that have decided for themselves that they do enjoy something and it’s hard (for me anyway) to think of a way to discuss a topic without trying to see it from both perspectives.

And just an additional note, for those asking why I felt this thread was meant to be a ‘debate’ or ‘discussion’ - it is AIBU after all and whilst I don’t think @SmileEachDay is unreasonable - the corotid artery isn’t and shouldn’t ever be a porn prop - I didn’t like the infighting I saw when I rtft as I saw some pretty nasty stuff (some since removed thankfully) being bandied about just because one or some commenters had a different angle to others.

I wasn’t judging the whole thread as such but realise in retrospect how my initial post must have read. I was just hoping for a good way to tackle this with the younger generation that is realistic because frankly I’m worried for my little sister who is currently living through the environment that some posters have mentioned and I’m the one she turns to.

Navi

You’re setting up a really weird us and then dynamic. You’re addressing no one in particular and setting you and 2 other posters up as the reasonable crew.

I haven’t insulted anyone. Not once.

Do I want the teen girls I work with to be angry about this shit? Yes I flipping do! I want them to be able to say no in the strongest possible terms. I don’t want them to think they have to be reasonable.

Do I want the teen boys I work with to be angry about this shit? Absolutely. I want them to be incensed that their friends and sisters are being treated like this.

Pussyfooting around it is not going to solve anything- and actually teens need to see that adults think this is unacceptable (when it comes to porn, particularly) - a permissive approach is very, very unhelpful.

Is it normal to want a near death (or to die) experience? If a human is enjoying being hurt/ tortured I would argue something is maladjusted in their psyche, however that is of course their prerogative, and if they have capacity that is their decision. It is, however maladaptive behaviour, and OP and others are right to be concerned that this is becoming mainstream / normalised. I think the real issue is that most women and girls do not understand the dangers, and here in lies the problem. Starving or reducing the brain of blood will cause brain damage. I can not stress this enough. If you partake in such risky behaviour at least be aware of the risks of stroke or / and anoxic brain damage. Once damage to the brain occurs the chance of total recovery are pretty much nil. It's not like a broken leg. The brain is a highly complex organ, and recovery from damage takes years of therapy, and completely recovery unlikely. If you caused your partner permanent brain damage would you be their carer 24/7?

I think you cannot consent to something if you don't know the full risks involved. If a person dies due to choking the perpetrator should get life imprisonment. No leniency for 'they wanted it'. If society sends out a message that death = imprisonment. I suspect the person doing the choking would think twice.

No @SmileEachDay I do not think you have insulted anybody, I said I agree with your post.

What I didn’t like was from other posters in the thread who felt it perfectly acceptable to be vile to others and in the interest of not causing any more directed attacks on character, have not added to my post.

I’m not saying we should pussyfoot around anything either, I’m saying that regardless of how angry we get, how much we might forbid something, it will not stop all and sundry from being exposed to it. Banning it might work for some but to coin an internet favourite “what has been seen cannot be unseen” - so rather than going with a damning approach to the content that one thread on Mumsnet is not going to change, approaching it from the standpoint that, as things stand today, this has been normalised to alarming levels and rather than clamming up, actually talking to the younger generation about it, properly we stand a much better chance of protecting those exposed to it.

The “us and them” attitude you speak of comes from the fact that as soon as I entered into the thread there was a pile on, unfortunately that tends to create an us and them vibe.

I also worry what the risk of causing a stroke is with these strangulation techniques, and also carotid artery dissection.

Stupid stupid thing to do!

I’m not sure what the point of talking about ‘banning’ this is. It can’t be banned! In instances where it is fatal it is banned but you don’t presumably want that to change?

As for ‘removing it from the realms of social acceptability’ well it’s not acceptable so it can’t be removed. The thread is about the opposite: that it shouldn’t become acceptable and normalised.

In your head I think you think you’re the voice of reason. In fact you just come across as sanctimonious and confused.

It's a sexual practice which cannot be done safely. This is not just "prudes" saying this, this is people within the BDSM community, and people in the medical profession, saying this.

Furthermore it's being mainstreamed in an alarming way.

And women are being killed by this practice and the men who kill them are literally getting away with murder.

Of course it's a feminist issue. Violence against women is a feminist issue.

NB: a necessary part of feminism being successful is that women should be afforded the same freedom to make choices - for good or ill - as men. This does not mean that any choice made by a woman is automatically a feminist choice. Supporting a ban on abortion - not a feminist choice. Rape apologism - not a feminist choice. Eroticising sexual violence against women - not a feminist choice.

I don't care if this is perceived as "kink shaming." Frankly, some kinks deserve to be shamed to hell and beyond.

PBo83 it IS being normalised and I’m more interested in finding a way to educate younger people around the issue rather than banning it and denying that there are those who have an enjoyment for it.

It is banned when it is done with too much force or causes harm. And that can be either intentionally or unintentionally. Because it is one of those physical acts that when, if done recklessly, mens rea may be inferred from the actus reus.

There is not a question of taking further action that exists within the law to "ban" it at present, so its puzzling that you raise this issue as an excuse to "express your interest in educating younger people around the issue". Its almost as if you have agenda to normalise it by talking about it as much as you can, including on social media forums mainly populated by women.

You are also somewhat narcissistic to assume that you have some role that could be useful in "educating young people around an issue" involving sex.

rather than clamming up, actually talking to the younger generation about it, properly we stand a much better chance of protecting those exposed to it

I do. Often.

I give enough of a shit about this stuff to have started this thread. To combat it on other social media.

I’m interested to know what you do to raise awareness and start discussion.

@Fuckwheresitgone thank you! This is exactly the sort of response I can refer to when I speak with my sister as it states clearly and calmly the direct impact of certain acts being damaging and for her to make a fully informed decision on whatever she may try, she can do so with those facts firmly in her head.

I also agree that “they wanted it” should not bring leniency for the cases where a life is taken through ill advised practices.

I came back to this thread to see if the tone had become less vitriolic but I see not.

I’ve seen a few posters asking “why women wish to engage in rough sex” but a larger number saying “you weirdos who are into BDSM shouldn’t come on this thread to discuss any aspect of your perverse sex life”. I’d just like to know which it is? Do you want me to try and explain why I sometimes enjoy this or should I keep my perverted thoughts to myself?

Starving or reducing the brain of blood will cause brain damage. I can not stress this enough. If you partake in such risky behaviour at least be aware of the risks of stroke or / and anoxic brain damage.

And you can sustain brain injury from choking and not realise it at the time and die (in some cases weeks) later from brain damage.

In da, anyone whose partner puts their hands around their neck, or uses a scarf or belt etc, goes into the high risk category. It’s one of the most lethal forms of da as it can kill within seconds.

My job before becoming a SAHM was specifically dealing with this sort of subject with young people and discussing sexual safety (beyond contraceptives), consent, exploration within as neutral an atmosphere as possible because I actually wanted them to come back and speak with me should they want or need to. A field I still volunteer within. IRL

Why all the faux naivety then Navi?

for the cases where a life is taken through ill advised practices.

You mean where this is the carefully constructed defence.

Why all the faux naivety then Navi?

And the confusion.

XXXXXX42: ...should I keep my perverted thoughts to myself?
.......
Frankly, yes.

I'm rather perplexed that i seem to have been branded as a victim or somehow damaged because i like to be spanked/caned/whipped/edged.

I am more than capable of making my own decisions and deciding what i do - and don't - want to do, and with whom i do it with. I happen to like pain, actually no, i love pain, as a masochist i can't help it - it is innate in me - and i adore the people that give me that pleasure/pain. It's funny because it is a power thing, and if you think the power lies with those that influct the pain then you're very much mistaken.

It is my choice. I want, need and crave it.

There has been no faux naïveté on my part just clearly a very different method of interpreting and dealing with a subject of discussion. Nor am I confused but I am attempting to respond to multiple judgmental to equally seemingly confused responses to my comments.

I had hope a change in approach may have lead to more meaningful conversation but this is indeed a witch hunt and I know I won’t get anywhere.

So following my earlier selfs advice I’m leaving this thread now.

Never before on Mumsnet have I felt the need to disclose my credentials just to have an opinion on a subject. My job and now volunteer based work is very important to me as I have met a lot of young people who want a safe and non judgmental environment in which to discuss sex. I have recently been finding myself at a loss for some of the content they wish to raise and was hoping for some non critical views of other MN users to help. I’m not going to get many more on this one so I shall remove myself.

Thank you.

It is my choice. I want, need and crave it.

That doesn’t make it okay for someone to hurt you.

PBo83: explained how I once 'choked' a partner because SHE asked me to as it 'turned her on' (and I was apparently rubbish at it because I was 'too gentle'). Now I'm apparently an abuser, a sympathiser, have blood on my hands and...oh yeah...I'm crap in bed (possibly true, I've not asked!)
..........
You could have refused to do it, there are plenty of men who are repulsed by even the thought of violence. There was certainly something seriously skewed about the woman you 'choked', she didn't have to be encouraged, she needed psychiatric help.

if you think the power lies with those that influct the pain then you're very much mistaken

Pretty sure that Natalie Connolly wasn’t the one with the power.

Carotid artery disease caused a former partner having a devastating stroke. There is nothing fun about it

I don’t understand why you persist in arguing that someone who performs a requested sexual service is doing something innately wrong.

You may not want to have your arse slapped but I do. If my partner is willing to do that because I ask him to why is he suddenly in the wrong? I like it, I asked him to do it, I enjoyed it and was happy about it afterwards. I could ask him to stop at anytime and he would.

He isn’t abusing me.