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AIBU?

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Original poster

How shockingly ignorant Remain supporters are.

671 replies

ScreamingLadySutch · 06/10/2019 08:07

Sorry, guys, but you are.

In the past week I have been told we must Remain because BJ is a dictator Hmm by one, and by another because it is easier to travel Hmm.

There seems to be no knowledge of our history and institutions, legal, political, sovereign and economic considerations, the history etc of Europe and what is really going on.

Labour and the trade unions were wholly against entry, and the Conservatives pushed it through by stealth and deceit. That crusty old socialist Tony Benn was prophetic on his remarks about what it meant. Now, today, that is reversed. Fascinating, really.

For a good grounding on the roots of the issue (Maastricht was going to result in Brexit it was completely inevitable), this documentary is quite useful:

OP posts:
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6
chomalungma · 06/10/2019 10:12

Personally, my biggest argument for being in the EU is that 27 other countries, who are our neighbours, can't all be wrong about wanting to be in such a project. There are some large economies in there - so why don't they want to get out of it.

What do we know that they don't?

Dongdingdong · 06/10/2019 10:12

The IMF used its annual report on the British economy to say Brexit would plunge the UK into recession next year and that it could see no economic advantage in leaving the EU.

@jennymanara Another prediction from 2016 from the IMF. Or are they not expert enough for you either Hmm

Original poster
ScreamingLadySutch · 06/10/2019 10:13

And no less than Angela Merkel made the same point: "If Europe today accounts for 7 % of the population, produces around 25% of global GDP, and has to finance 50% of global social spending, then its obvious that it will have to work very hard to maintain its prosperity and way of life".

This covers the billions given to Europe that is talked about. Why, if we can have lower taxes (which would help economic growth and jobs) and spend it better, on our own concerns?

OP posts:
DontMakeMeShushYou · 06/10/2019 10:14

Wow! That quote from Elon Musk is truly one of the most disingenuous statements I've ever heard!

Dongdingdong · 06/10/2019 10:14

Source for the above:

Walkaround · 06/10/2019 10:15

DBML - If you do not like representative democracy, then what system are you advocating? Rule of the mob? If the majority of our representatives say the current proposed deal or no deal are a seriously bad thing for their constituents, why is it democratic to let a minority government push it through?

chomalungma · 06/10/2019 10:15

@screamingladysutch

So as someone who cares about deomcracy, I take it you are happy with the current withdrawal agreement?

It's been negotiated with the EU and it gets us to Leave.

So we would be upholding democracy.

GettingABitDesperateNow · 06/10/2019 10:15

Havent RTFT but.....oh, the irony!

jennymanara · 06/10/2019 10:15

@dongdingdong Can you give me a link to that quote.

Original poster
ScreamingLadySutch · 06/10/2019 10:15

@Dongdingdong "The IMF used its annual report on the British economy to say Brexit would plunge the UK into recession next year" true,

however, that is also true globally - USA and China, and even worse for Germany and the Eurozone.

Long term, I think there is an economic advantage to leaving the EU. If there wasn't, I would not have come down on the side of Leave. Always follow the money.

OP posts:
32ndofFebtober · 06/10/2019 10:16

Ooh, if we're doing sweeping generalisation of a whole group of society based on the opinions of a tiny handful of people, then I can say that the people who I'm friends with on Facebook who are very happy that we might crash out of Europe without a deal, can't spell or use proper grammar, often repost dodgy, rascist memes without realising and are generally not very bright. That doesn't mean I believe everyone who voted leave are exactly the same.

Incidentally, I keep these people as friends, as they're actually very nice people in general.

tumbleisatwat · 06/10/2019 10:17

@DontMakeMeShushYou

It's also fairly stupid. Who guarantees that money? The government. Who maintains law & order so business can operate? The government. Who guarantees the property rights of business? The government...

I could go on...

DriftingLeaves · 06/10/2019 10:19

I am not saying 'you must vote Leave', but FFS show some knowledge and debate accordingly!!

If the leavers had done that we wouldn't be in this mess. Sadly they voted with their bigotry.

Roussette · 06/10/2019 10:19

If I am honest, I think one of the things that unites leavers is they think Britain is more important on the economic world stage than we really are

Yes yes yes. We are a poxy little country stuck between China and US who won't give an inch as far as trading with us now we've lost our biggest trading partner, the EU.

Never mind, just wave a union jack or two, that'll make it all a whole lot better.

Dongdingdong · 06/10/2019 10:20

@jennymanara I already did! Hmm

Sunshinegirl82 · 06/10/2019 10:21

I read posts like this and I just want to gather my children and leave the UK. I just don't like who we have become as a society over the last few years. I don't want my children growing up surrounded by this toxic hatred.

Leave, remain, I think attitudes like the OP's are a huge part of why we find ourselves in this mess.

DH has an Irish grandmother. Now trying to get him (and by extension the kids) Irish citizenship so we have an option to get out. I don't want to be British anymore.

QuizzlyBear · 06/10/2019 10:21

Who wrote YellowHammer? You can put it along with the forecasts of Project Fear. What were those? Let me remember

It was written by the CCS - the department of the Cabinet Office responsible for emergency planning. Hardly a secret and hardly a bunch of fear-mongering Remainers.

Can you cite a single independent study that says we'll be better off after a No Deal Brexit then, if this is all just Project Fear?

I've no doubt the initial campaigning overstated the outcomes (as they knew them then) however we've since seen the more serious threats of medical, staffing and trade shortages, along with the NI issue that wasn't even considered in 2016.

But if you're right and it'll all be sunlit uplands I will be thrilled. Meanwhile I'll keep donating to my local foodbank, volunteering with the increasing levels of homelessness in our cities and campaigning for positive change. Probably a better use of my time than goading people unnecessarily on the internet...

Coffeeandchocolate9 · 06/10/2019 10:21

A 2% majority voted for a thing that was big and vague in an ADVISORY referendum. Further fact gathering reveals that nobody agrees on anything specific and that experts agree that doing the thing is likely to be economically and socially disastrous for years to come. Do you really believe that jumping off a cliff with a 95% chance of death is still the right thing to do because "Democracy"? As opposed to, say, standing up and saying "look guys, we hear you but in all honesty from what we have found out now it's a really bad idea." And at the very least if referendums are the be all and end all of democracy, shouldn't it be undemocratic to not take a specific deal, no deal and revoke back to the people to vote?

How shockingly ignorant Remain supporters are.
tumbleisatwat · 06/10/2019 10:22

@Roussette

Agree completely.

It's the past they voted for, not the future.

jennymanara · 06/10/2019 10:22

@Dongdingdong Forgive me if I ignore newspaper articles quoting reports. I read original reports. Because newspapers often selectively quote to back up their viewpoint.
Maybe the IMF did say that? But more likely they said if this happens with Brexit e.g. we crash out, this is what we predict will happen. No one worth their salt does not state clearly the assumptions being made when modelling any future economic forecast.
That is not to say that models are always correct, but you have to look at the stated assumptions being made.

So I could model an economic forecast which says the economy after Brexit will grow by 10% and include in my assumptions that Britain will negotiate spectacular trade deals. And the Daily Mail could quote me as evidence that Brexit will be great. It means nothing.

You have to understand assumptions being made, otherwise any conclusions are meaningless.

DBML · 06/10/2019 10:23

We are a poxy little country stuck between China and US

I have family who died in the war for this “poxy little country”. Please have some respect.

danmthatonestakentryanotheer · 06/10/2019 10:24

And Jacob Rees Mogg (lets not start the personal comments, whether you like it or not he is sharp)

Hypocrisy of the highest order...well played, OP, well played.

Walkaround · 06/10/2019 10:24

@DBML - If you do not like representative democracy, then what system are you advocating? Rule of the mob? If the majority of our representatives say the current proposed deal or no deal are a seriously bad thing for their constituents, why is it democratic to let a minority government push it through?

tumbleisatwat · 06/10/2019 10:25

@DBML

Oh do fuck off with that emotive bollocks.

Almost every family in this country will have people who suffered and died in war. It doesn't mean you can co-opt that suffering for your own agenda.