How shockingly ignorant Remain supporters are.

[ScreamingLadySutch]

Sorry, guys, but you are.

In the past week I have been told we must Remain because BJ is a dictator by one, and by another because it is easier to travel .

There seems to be no knowledge of our history and institutions, legal, political, sovereign and economic considerations, the history etc of Europe and what is really going on.

Labour and the trade unions were wholly against entry, and the Conservatives pushed it through by stealth and deceit. That crusty old socialist Tony Benn was prophetic on his remarks about what it meant. Now, today, that is reversed. Fascinating, really.

For a good grounding on the roots of the issue (Maastricht was going to result in Brexit it was completely inevitable), this documentary is quite useful:

Boris doesn't represent the people of the UK

Billy, save your energy and help your dh find work?

My dh has been made redundant twice in past 10 years and the last one was a few months ago. He's not in any fancy job at all no special skills and no amazing wage far from it and he's had plenty of job interviews.
Every single one of our friends has endured it. It's part of modern working life now. Best be positive and carry on. Wanting to punch people (charming) won't help him, you or anyone.

Goady original post.

How many people would vote in the same mps now, whether you voted remain or leave?

Well so far, not actual leavers. Because parliament is largely remain. Parliament has shown itself to be autocratic and tyrannical.

It tells you a lot about the state of our country when someone can label a democratically elected chamber of representatives debating and passing legislation as "autocratic and tyrannical" not only with a straight face but with other people nodding along behind them.

The fact that you can do this when we have a prime minister who misused royal perogatives to unilaterally shut down that democratically elected chamber makes it even more astonishing.

The leavers with the money will do anything to avoid a hefty tax bill and if that means setting fire to our centuries old representative process through propaganda the so be it.

A general election will create a very different looking parliament.

Many sitting MPs will be out of a job. And they know it.

Yes parliament is showing autocratic tendencies, led on by their cheerleaders such as Bercow and Grieve. Absolutely

Tyrannical - no, that's taking it too far.

A general election will create a very different looking parliament

I think that's one thing we can all agree on.

But I think it's hard to predict in many constituencies. Tactical voting is going to make things interesting, as well as the turnout.

@andyoldlabour

Both Norway and Switzerland are not in the EU and do not have hard borders with the EU

This is not true. Here's a photo of the hard border between Sweden and Norway.

It can take several hours for a goods vehicle to cross the border - which makes the 'Norway option' neither practically or politically possible on the island of Ireland.

Hope.. Do explain away how Emily Thorney can be seen supporting the outcome because that's the honest democrat thing to do and then recently saying actually she's going to champion another ref for remain?

Or kier starmer... Or anyone else who said they would support the vote but have clearly admitted they were lying and had absolutely no intention to?

It's these very subversive mps, who are not acting for us but colluding with the eu who Boris is up agaisnt.

A general election will create a very different looking parliament.

Many sitting MPs will be out of a job. And they know it.

Yes. I do fervently hope that we wind up with a clear majority of either brexit or remain - it may return hung yet again, but I doubt it.

The current Parliamentary arithmetic is inverted, i.e. the majority ran on 'honouring the vote' manifestos and the minority are in actual fact doing this. They can hide behind 'getting a good deal for the country' right up to the point where the Brexit party sweeps into their constituencies.

It says something doesn't it when supposedly neutral lady hale comes out boasting of taking Boris down....

I am exceptionally polite in real life. But I understand why people get so angry and rude. Because it is so common for people to post "facts" that are total lies. They may not realise they are lies, but it is very common. And it is wearing as lie after lie is posted.

You have met them all?

@Imnotthrowingawaymyshot I was unemployed last year and really struggled to get another job. And speaking to friends who recruit they are shocked at the amount of people applying for jobs. Things vary depending where in the country you live.

very subversive mps, who are not acting for us but colluding with the eu

I've read this somewhere too but I can't remember where - could you link to it?

very subversive mps, who are not acting for us but colluding with the eu

I presume this is a reference to the Lib Dems writing to the EU and asking them not to rush into a deal with Johnson?

I can't link on phone, just Google it.

As well as Blair, mandelson... Jo swinsons dh is working for company that gets huge eu grants etc.

All neck deep in their own vested interest

All neck deep in their own vested interest

Thank God that’s never been a problem for the leave side.

AGermFreeAdolescent
How sweet that you went to so much time and trouble to pick through my old posts to see if you could prove I'd referred to all leave voters as thick racists. And how selective you were in your quoting :

Your quote:
I didn't see the debate, but people like that always strike me as dim-witted
Full context:
Someone posted: "As wonderful lady said on brexit debate on chanel 4 last night, 'get on with it, if they were in business they would have been sacked by now, three years of nothing has come out of that parliament'."
To which I responded:
I didn't see the debate, but people like that always strike me as dim-witted. Get on with what? This is the Brexit dilemma. No plan means nothing can be 'got on with'. 'People in business' probably wouldn't have been that stupid in the first place... as someone else said, Leavers voted for a departure, not a destination.

A bit more selective quoting here:

Someone wrote: It's not about racism.
I replied: maybe not for you, but it's absolutely about that for many, many Brexit supporters and then [WHOOPS! you missed out this crucial bit (Yaxley-Lennon, Football Lads Alliance, NF, BNP, EDL, etc etc.) It is their guiding principle.

Again:
Someone wrote:
If EU does not agree to an extension, then UK leaves the EU without deal and all fingers will be pointed at the EU.

I responded:
People with half a brain will not be pointing the finger at the EU, but will be looking at the ineptitude of our own government, which chose to suspend parliament at a time of crisis. Leavers are already starting the 'blame the EU' rhetoric because they know this is a massive fuck up. It's important not to be taken in by this type of propaganda and to call it out when you spot it...

Funny, it all looks a bit different from the little bits you picked out. I guess the bits that you chose to omit somehow didn't suit your agenda...

Imnotthrowingawaymyshot - let's not forget that the People did not vote for a specific Brexit. Let's also not forget that if all the Brexiteers in Parliament had voted for Theresa May's Brexit deal alongside those Remainers who kept their promise to vote to leave the EU, we would have left the EU by now. Where was their "democratic" spirit then? Boris Johnson, Rees Mogg, Nigel Farage, etc, have no interest whatsoever in why disgruntled Labour voters wanted to leave the EU, they have only their personal interests at heart. They are not democrats standing up against tyranny, they are very much part of the tyranny. And talking of democracy, the vitriolic propaganda has not been coming from the EU and its institutions, it has very much come from within, from the country that wants to "take back control." It is the UK that is stoking up violent hatred within its own borders and which is undermining its own democratic institutions, not the EU. And all the talk of taking back control makes the UK look much more at risk of falling to violent extremism than the EU at this point in time. Forcing through a no deal Brexit by means of attempting to circumvent the Legislature altogether and attempting to bring the Judiciary into disrepute is no way of restoring democracy. It's just leading us into a fresh form of Hell.

Let's also not forget that if all the Brexiteers in Parliament had voted for Theresa May's Brexit deal alongside those Remainers who kept their promise to vote to leave the EU, we would have left the EU by now.

BRINO.

Veradker has made his intentions clear since Johnson unveiled his counter-proposal. He'll accept nothing short of the UK remaining in the customs union in perpetuity - in fact, he thinks the British people don't even want Brexit and it's in his gift to stop it.

Thank God May's deal never made it through, we'd be well and truly stuck in the worst of all possible worlds. It would be better just to stay, which of course has been the strategy all along.

"I can't link on phone, just Google it."

Classic!😂 I found some bullshit online which is true because I believe it and now I can't be arsed to link you to it .

He'll accept nothing short of the UK remaining in the customs union in perpetuity - in fact, he thinks the British people don't even want Brexit and it's in his gift to stop it

Opinion polls tend to support the view that there has been a shift towards Remain.

The EU wants to protect its customs union and wants to ensure that the GFA is honoured. Until something can be found, a CU might be the best bet.