How shockingly ignorant Remain supporters are.

[ScreamingLadySutch]

Sorry, guys, but you are.

In the past week I have been told we must Remain because BJ is a dictator by one, and by another because it is easier to travel .

There seems to be no knowledge of our history and institutions, legal, political, sovereign and economic considerations, the history etc of Europe and what is really going on.

Labour and the trade unions were wholly against entry, and the Conservatives pushed it through by stealth and deceit. That crusty old socialist Tony Benn was prophetic on his remarks about what it meant. Now, today, that is reversed. Fascinating, really.

For a good grounding on the roots of the issue (Maastricht was going to result in Brexit it was completely inevitable), this documentary is quite useful:

So that's OK then, as long as the economy is strong, the political system is secondary

It would seem that some of our current politicians don't care about the political system, given their disdain for the rule of law and the rule of Parliament, their attempts to silence Parliament etc.

Still, as long as we get to leave, then who cares how Leave is achieved......

OK apologies I hadn't heard of Godwin's Law. I have now Googled it. I take back the Nazi reference

The Chinese one-party dictatorship government is another example. People put up with a lack of civil rights and freedoms because the economy is strong.

Of course the EU is not comparable to a fascist or communist regime. But the argument that the economy trumps all is short-sighted.

Also while it’s clear the economy isn’t the ONLY important thing, it is the most important thing. The country’s going to the on the bones of its arse in the event of a no deal Brexit but hey folks, ain’t sovereignty and taking back control marvellous

But the argument that the economy trumps all is short-sighted

The economy does not trump all.

But it is a perfectly valid reason to vote to stay in the EU because of the economic effects.

It's perfectly valid to vote to leave if you are concerned for political reasons.

@pierre Nazi Germany economy was very much based on being at war.

If Boris is allowed to barge on unchecked, we’ll have a political system akin to Nazi Germany with a shit economy to boot

He won't be unchecked if parliamentary and democratic principles (such as respecting results of elections) are upheld.

And if it's not OK to invoke Nazism, then that applies to all.

By the way I think the fear that authoritarianism will come from the right is misguided. There is far more danger of it (and signs of it) in Corbyn's party. Meanwhile the LibDems are increasingly neither Liberal (let's gag the press Clegg) nor democratic (Swinson).

He won't be unchecked if parliamentary and democratic principles (such as respecting results of elections) are upheld

PARLIAMENT is debating it. Who gets to decide what Leave looks like?

Is it the Government or Parliament?

In short, I was lumping you all together. HTH. Lovely
16,141,241 people voted to Remain and 17,410,742 people voted to Leave. There must have been a myriad of reasons for their decisions but I bet most people voted for what they thought might benefit their family not for some high minded political or ideological reason.

To be fair so far on this thread the rudest replies are from the OP. Sarcasm and attacks are unlikely to ever get anyone to see your POV.

No I did not vote for what I thought would benefit my family. I do not understand the selfishness of those who do.

Brexit is already making us poorer in every measurable way. There will be a decrease in sovereignty as our power to influence other nations is greatly diminished.

Brexit voters were lied to (claims on buses). Why aren't they angry about that?

@twofingerstoEverything

Nine times out of ten, when I've seen the phrase 'thick, racist Leaver' it's written by a Leaver claiming that's how they're perceived by Remainers. Odd that.

twofingerstoEverything Tue 03-Sep-19 15:40:56
I didn't see the debate, but people like that always strike me as dim-witted

twofingerstoEverything Thu 23-May-19 13:06:38
It's not about racism.
hmm maybe not for you, but it's absolutely about that for many, many Brexit supporters

twofingerstoEverything Tue 10-Sep-19 08:00:32
People with half a brain will not be pointing the finger at the EU

Are you the one in ten?

And on the Brexit side, there are people who voted for Brexit because they thought it would get rid of foreigners. Also, I've had a metric fuckton of abuse off Brexiters. If I had a quid for every time I saw the word 'Remoaner', I'd be able to buy the entire Everton team.

Some Remainers are ignorant idiots and snobs, too, but let's not act like Leavers are perfect and are always polite and never call Remainers names or abuse them.

Also, as a Jew, I would really appreciate if gentiles would stop comparing the EU to Nazi Germany because remember a little thing called the Holocaust? The EU has not murdered 6 million Jews, and I am still here.

No I'm not ignorant thanks. You are very ignorant to decide that all people that voted remain are ignorant, based on what exactly?

It may well be that the GB shouldn't have gone into the EU, but we did. Times have moved on and now no one seems to know exactly how we're going to get out. Which I predicted at the time.

I'd like nothing more than for the whole thing to be done and dusted so that the government can focus on other matters.

I fear that this Brexit business will dominate now for years and years to come even after we'd left, and that no one will be any the better off for it.

Brexit voters were lied to (claims on buses). Why aren't they angry about that?

Yes it's disgraceful how politicians lie and election campaigns are full of empty promises and lies. But most voters expect this. And it happened on both sides. Voters aren't all stupid and don't believe everything they see on election posters. This goes for Leave voters too.

Also, as a Jew, I would really appreciate if gentiles would stop comparing the EU to Nazi Germany because remember a little thing called the Holocaust? The EU has not murdered 6 million Jews, and I am still here. That's a very good point. Really distasteful to do this.

Voters aren't all stupid and don't believe everything they see on election posters

Boris Johnson is still at it.

Talking about EU regulations and kippers.

He lies regularly about the EU.

I don't see where anyone compared the EU to Nazi Germany. Maybe I missed it.

I would love to know what lies the remain side told that compare remotely with the bus lies.

Project Fear has not only been repeatedly proven true, it is an underestimate.

DH losing job because of Brexit, I feel particularly ignorant at the moment as I would personally like to punch every single leaver in the teeth,

I don't see where anyone compared the EU to Nazi Germany. Maybe I missed it

You didn't compare the EU to Nazi Germany

You did make the point that in Nazi Germany, the economy was strong and things were funded, so the political system concerns are secondary.

But clearly, you don't think that the EU is like the Nazi system.

Because hopefully people wouldn't have voted purely on economic concerns if they thought the EU was like the Nazi party...

@SusieOwl4

If people didn’t bother to vote, they don’t get a say.

.... Who gets to decide what leave looks like?

Well so far, not actual leavers. Because parliament is largely remain. Parliament has shown itself to be autocratic and tyrannical.

How many more videos need posting of an earnest Emily Thorne Berry shortly after ref.

I'm a democrat we must honour the vote.

Keir starmer... We just honour the vote

Jo swinsons predecessor... We must honour the vote..

Jeremy corybn... A leaver through and through... Remaining shifty and silent and twisting and turning...

Then of course it comes out Jo swinsons dh is getting massive eu funding... Mps are in cahoots with other eu mps... And we realise they lied and non of them were serious about the honouring the vote.

Talk today if boris holing up in no 10 waiting for a police warrant to take him aWay

What will the case be? Boris and the people of the UK v Parliament?

Well so far, not actual leavers. Because parliament is largely remain. Parliament has shown itself to be autocratic and tyrannical

Parliament is made up of MPs who were voted in by their constituents, most of whom belong to parties that have said that they want a Leave deal that is good for the country.

That's who the people voted for to carry out their decision.