To not understand how some people allow their dc to be raised in abusive homes?

[laptopscreen]

I really don’t understand it. I can kind of see why some people end up staying in abusive relationships without dc as they just make excuses over and over but with dc I do not understand how the dc aren’t more important than some crappy relationship.
I am genuinely wondering what happens here.Fwiw I was raised in this. And I’m still not understanding how on Earth you don’t put your dc first. Mumsnet seems to highlight this situation over and over again.

Can anyone help me understand? I’m nc Witt my mum now. I’m trying to process everything and tbh I haven’t forgiven my mum for allowing me and siblings to stay in the conditions we were in.

I grew up with my father being abusive to my mother. Mentally, physically, had affairs ( including whilst my mum was in labour ) and he sexually abused her. He even had an accident whilst drink driving back from an affair when she was pregnant with me and ended up with epilepsy - after that the abuse worsened. My father was not abusive to us ( possibly mentally and he did threaten to kill us on occasion to get to my mum )

My mum left us with him when I was 4 and my brother was 2. There is a part of me that is upset with her for leaving us with him. I would never leave my children with such a man EVER but I do understand why she stayed. My mum was abused as a child by her neighbour. She was very naive and blamed herself a lot for abuse and felt ashamed by it ( especially the sexual part ) which I completely understand and unfortunately have experienced myself. His family were also awful and made threads and didn't support her whatsoever. He had a pack of brothers who were all abusive men. Her confidence had been knocked so much I don't think she could see a way out for a long time.

Eventually she got the courage to leave - I'd like to think if my dad was physically or sexually abusive to us she would have taken us. ( remember this was the early 90s and mental abuse wasn't as much of a thing - support was less )

She did try to get custody - she spent thousands and got into a lot of debt but my dad would lie to the courts and say my step father was abusive to us kids and she had affairs etc and each time he was awarded custody. I can see now I was just a meal ticket for my dad.

At the time, I adored my dad I put him on a pedestal and he told so many lies about my mum and step dad I hated them both.

He died when I was 8 in front of me ( he had a seizure that he didn't come out of ) eventually after my cunt uncles tried to take us away and try to get custody we ended up back with my mum.

I was lucky enough that I was still young and grew up getting to know my mum. Since leaving my dad she has become stronger, she's still very child like in a lot of ways but me , her and my brother are so close and are best friends. I don't hold any resent towards her anymore - I do my dad, and as awful as this is to say and as much as I did love my dad. Him dying was probably the best thing that could have happened for all 3 of us.

Sorry I know I've gone off on a tangent - but abuse is so complex and so individual to each case there's so much more to it than - you're a mother, why don't you leave ? Your kids come first ... etc !

@laptopscreen tbh with you I'm not surprised you are angry with your DM I think I would feel the exact same if I was you. It sounds like you've all been hell living with your Dad. I suppose the only thing you can do is to keep offering your Mum help to leave but if she hasn't done by this stage I'm not sure she ever will. If she's lived like this for decades then she probably doesn't know how else to live or who she is anymore. I should imagine the thought of leaving for her is more terrifying than staying. At least she knows what she's in for if she stays.

I grew up this way too. I have pondered over it a fair few times over the years and my guess is that my Mother feared being alone. She had fairly bad anxiety and depression at one stage, I think it held her back greatly. Mostly think she just worried about coping with my brother and I alone (not that my step dad was much help!).

Hi laptop.

I was abused by my Dad as a child. Although my parents divorced (not because of the abuse, because he left her) because of complicated reasons my Mum continued to have a relatively friendly relationship with him up until I disclosed the abuse in my 20s. She then continued to speak to him and speak of him, until I put my foot down and told her clearly I had PTSD because of him and she wasn’t to mention him. Now she never talks of him around me and I assume she no longer sees him, although I can’t verify that. I don’t want to talk about it with her.

My childhood was traumatic for a number of reasons and I had to work through an enormous amount of resentment and hurt to reach a place of peace. I love my Mum. I truly believe if she had realised what was occurring and the impact her behaviour had on me she would have changed, if she could. She’s not a bad person, she has made bad choices.

I say all this to counterbalance what I am about to say: I work with young people and often see the effects of horrendous home lives. In no way do I accept it as normal or acceptable. What happened to me wasn’t okay. But based on my own experience with my Mum, I have to think that most parents are doing what they can or that they don’t fully understand the ramifications, or that they are so unwell themselves they can’t see the truth, so this is why children end up in terrible circumstances.

Of course, the same does not apply to the abuser. But many women parents are trapped in horrible situations with an abusive partner or chaotic lifestyle. Not all of them have the strength of will or emotional capacity to protect their children as they should do.

I try and think of the quote ‘be the person you needed when you were a child’ and live to that everyday.

Fear, loss of confidence, no financial support

Some are caught up in the drama of the relationship - there are some who thrive of this sadly their children come second but their choices are so often excused because they have been victims

Working as a therapist in DV it was incredibly heartbreaking to realize how many women choose the drama over being settled for their children how excuses are made for them

My mum choose a violent man over me I thought she was an exception sadly she isn’t

Equally the father are also making choices that are selfish

My friend is in an abusive relationship - more emotional and mental abuse than physical although I can't rule physical abuse out... She will never leave because she says she can't risk him having the children every other weekend without her being there to protect them. 😢😢 I hope they never blame her for this but I fear they will

@NeverTwerkNaked I actually think the court process has gotten worse since I was a dc. When I was a dc anyone who got divorced automatically the dc stayed with their mother. My dad was a well known town alcoholic and we lived in a semi that I’ve no doubt my neighbours heard our screams and my dads shouting. Doubt there were no witnesses available if necessary.

For my mum it would have resulted in us staying with her. In today’s attitudes perhaps this is not the case so that I understand, some women do stay for the dc. I now also have the issue after all of that when the dc are long gone my dm is still there. What’s her reasoning now? I’m angry at that as it just looks like more excuses to stay with someone who abused her dc. I have dc so I just don’t understand it.
I love my dm and would love nothing more than a nice relationship however I cannot bring myself to do that while she insists on staying with my dad.

She is safe now as he is too ill to even walk so it’s easy for me to just cut ties now and she’s told me she prefers my siblings to me and I think that’s because I question this but he targeted me more over them because I always fought back so unfortunately they now deny everything even though they were definitely hurt by him aswell.

The court thing a few people have mentioned is very true. Many women find they are in a better position to protect the children whilst still with the perp because they can supervise at all times. Less than 1% of court cases end in no contact, it's nearly always unsupervised contact and often in a house with dv is happening with the new partner. A sickening amount of women have had custody given to the perp because DV is usually one word against another and the perp convinces the court that the victim is being vindictive.

It's disgraceful what happens in family courts and I can honestly see why women find they can keep their children safer in the relationship.

I think the family courts have got worse because there are firstly more restrictions on who can get legal aid (should still be available in domestic abuse cases but not sure how you prove it) and the legal aid fees are now very low so even when provided the lawyers can't afford to spend much time on cases. It's not specific to family law but there is a good book called The Secret Barrister which explains some of the problems.

I hope in the future grown up children aren't asking why did my mother leave my abusive father rather than stick it out knowing that he would get access.

I hope at least where abuse has been reported to the police access isn't being granted. I don't have personal experience.

Maybe we need a new charity that helps provide legal counsel to women in this situation? If there is one already let me know.

To get legal aid in a DV case, you have to be able to show evidence such as police involvement, bank statements, or medical records.
You don't have to have those documents at your first interview with your solicitor, but they must be able to find them.

www.gov.uk/legal-aid/domestic-abuse-or-violence

Report was reported to police. I had medical evidence. Son disclosed abuse to head teacher. Court still ordered lengthy unsupervised contact.

Son now refusing to go and court aren't (yet) making me send him. But I look back and wish i.had been.warned how flawed the family court system is.

@NeverTwerkNaked and are you able to get legal representation through legal aid?

Honestly as well I think the law or guidelines need to change. It isn't just a UK problem. I am sure I have read about courts in other countries ordering access in cases where the father has actually murdered the mother.

I think if you have been physically abusive to the mother of your children then you aren't safe to have unsupervised access to your children.

Both of my parents were very abusive - physically and psychologically. The abuse was consistent and extreme. We are talking broken bones, shaved eyebrows, humiliation, you name it. They were wealthy and I was privately educated, so nobody thought to question a thing. I was bullied at home and school. I learned to be silent and basically ceased to exist until I left home for my own safety. If you were to ask my parent’s friends, they were charming, lovely people, and I was a clumsy child who had ten broken arms before I turned eight. People don’t ask the right questions.

I was told by a sw that my children should be having contact with their father (who was violent to me) as it was in their best interest and that they must miss their dad. (He’s been absent for 2 years) I pointed out that he was violet (which is all down on record) and got told that it wasn’t about me, it was about them! She even suggested I emailed him to ask him to see them. Luckily for me he isn’t actually interested in seeing them but if he was he would have clearly got unsupervised contact.

Sometimes children are better off in the home where there mother controls what they experience to some degree than at the whims of an abuser alone for 50% contact time.

Courts see 50/50 as standard and to be honest, if this was the future reality for my daughters then I would still be in my relationship.

When all at home together, they maybe dealt with 10 or 20% time where he was around with them, even less if he worked overtime.

With contact which is unsupervised they are alone with him, for much more time as he wouldn't now choose to do so much overtime as it would eat into his contact time as no longer living with the family. Ie he no longer sees them around the house or puts youngest to bed etc.

It's one reason why I moved away when leaving but not everyone can do this.

Leaving a child at the whims of an abusive parent is the courts normal stance. It doesn't matter to them as he can still parent. My ex husband is an excellent dad to a young child but as the child gets older with their own personality and opinions especially if female, then this is when he is no longer even a good dad. I watched this, I also watched my growing daughter slowly see him in a different way as he was changing how he spoke and treated her as she grew. At 10 (just this summer), he now considers her fair game to feel the brunt of his personality and expectations. At home, I could mitigate this but for unsupervised contact I can't.

Also he was pretty bad to me but he was not abusive all the time. He could be sweet, funny and charming. Very romantic if and when he got his own way.

But I really think you don't need to ask this question as when there is abuse in the home, it's not often constant and even local authority care can be far worse. Yes I have experienced this in my childhood.

Your experience is different to mine but I wouldn't come on here and ask why do women leave when sometimes the situation they go to, is worse than the one they left?

I only left when forced to and when I could sort out something decent for me and my kids.

@GrapefruitsAreNotTheOnlyFruit yes eligible for legal aid but it doesn't really help as cafcass really drive the decisions of the family court and they don't seem remotely interested in the truth

In my case the only thing that would have been worse than my dm leaving my dad would have been him gaining 100% custody. Anything less than that and I would have been better off. Any respite at all from it would have been welcomed. Instead I already had 100% abuse everyday anyway.

Legal aid proof is quite hard to obtain but the challenging but is the threshold financially is very low. When I was on SMP of 139 a week I had to pay £160 A month contribution.

No contact is rarely awarded even in cases of abuse against a child

I grew up with an abuser and the RS with my mum is very damaged as I do feel that she stood and watched. He didn’t hit her. He was hitting me

I live next door to a family where I have a horrible feeling the dad is abusive. So many signs but nothing quite enough to do anything.

Abuse reported and even convictions make no difference to a court when looking at contact arrangements. Cafcass is piss poor. Lots of women, let alone men parrot, (even on here), "well he is their dad and what he did to you makes no difference and he still their parent too" .

They minimise the impact of harassment and the courts themselves are used on this basis, where wealthier fathers drag their ex into court time and time again.

Also it extremely hard to access legal aid. You have to have been to court. So even reports of domestic abuse do not mean you can get legal aid.

It was also hard to access victim support. The services are shrinking year on year. Universal credit makes leaving even harder.

I can totally understand why so many women stay.

My mum waited till my dad left her for someone else and is now the victim in the whole situation
I left home at 19 and guess what... had 2 DC with an emotionally abusive man. I left when they were 3 and 5. Yeah it was scary to do it, but I didn’t feel like I had any other choice but to do so
My DM was not the one suffering the physical abuse, so she became accustomed to the emotional abuse and began to see it as ‘normal’ somehow, and I just don’t trust her judgement at all, neither does DSis. I can’t put my full faith in her for anything, ever

OP - As someone with DC, who found the strength and self-respect to leave an abusive relationship, you have ZERO RIGHT to judge.

There is next to no support for victims, as well as survivors (post relationship), of domestic abuse.

It is most often the case that the finger is pointed at the mother, with fathers largely being able to walk away without judgement or justice.

Op read the thread in Aibu just started about parental alienation and her abusive ex.

It's so sad. This is a major reason why some stay.

@Thereblegeopart I disagree. Having spent my entire adult life recovering from abuse I don’t think I have zero right

@flirtygirl thanks your post is helpful. Would you wonder why the victim then stayed on when the dc are long gone though?