To not understand how some people allow their dc to be raised in abusive homes?

[laptopscreen]

I really don’t understand it. I can kind of see why some people end up staying in abusive relationships without dc as they just make excuses over and over but with dc I do not understand how the dc aren’t more important than some crappy relationship.
I am genuinely wondering what happens here.Fwiw I was raised in this. And I’m still not understanding how on Earth you don’t put your dc first. Mumsnet seems to highlight this situation over and over again.

Can anyone help me understand? I’m nc Witt my mum now. I’m trying to process everything and tbh I haven’t forgiven my mum for allowing me and siblings to stay in the conditions we were in.

@Prawnofthepatriarchy
I was able to put my DC first because my DPs put me and my brothers first. I chose a lovely DH because I grew up observing my happily married parents etc.

I am able to put my DCs first because my parents didn't put us first. I chose a lovely DH because I grew up in a nasty, violent, neglectful home and took great care not to replicate that.

@PleaseHelpM3
Why does she stay? Asks everyone
Why doesn't he stop? Asks no one

Because however hard it is, it's much easier to leave than to change the behaviour of another adult

After years of physical and emotional abuse my mother left my father. He was a nasty, violent alcoholic who kept us without money and beat mum every day. He often got us all up in the middle of the night to watch him beat her up. She left when I was 9, my older sibling was 10 and there were 4 younger than me. She didn't take us with her and it was many years until we saw her again.

As children we knew no different. It was just our life. There was no one stepping in, no one reporting to SS and, after she left, we lived in squalor, rarely went to school, begged at the local shop for food and stole money to try and get some. All the time he was pissed, angry, abusive and neglectful. After 3 yrs we were taken into care.

It would be easy to blame mum. But she was a victim. Not only a victim of his, but a victim of her time. Back then husbands 'owned' their wives. She made her bed etc, family buried their heads in the sand, no one ever talked about it. No-one helped her. She stayed with him for 11yrs and had 6 children under 10. If she hadn't left he would have killed her eventually.

There is more support now for people who are in abusive relationships but the feelings of the abused aren't any different. There are lots of reasons why people don't leave, some of which have already been highlighted. It's easy to think 'I would never do that' when you don't have to. It's easy to think 'well I got out so why can't they' when you have strength and determination. But these are things many abused women don't have.

As an adult you need to let go. The past does not need to determine your future and decisions that were made when you were a child do not have to shape who you are now. I could say if I successfully got over it and have no lasting damage then so can everyone else, but that would be the same as saying the above about abused women.

My dad was emotionally and mentally abusive, sometimes physically abusive but mostly the cruelty. It was directed at all of us, my mum included, and she didn't leave him until we were all over 18.

His temper was horrific and even though it meant a worse reaction if we got caught we would deliberately hide things from him and cover up for one another to avoid getting into trouble, mum would help in this collision although I didn't realise it at the time. She would let us do things, go places, give us stuff and say "don't tell your dad". If one of us misbehaved she would tell us off in a totally normal way, she never ever hit us, and she would tell us all not to tell our dad we'd gotten told off or else he would give us one of his telling offs. If he started on us she would jump in and argue back with him, sending us upstairs or out to play first. I used to wonder why she did that and now I know it's so that he would be angry with her instead of us, it was part of how she protected us.

I've spoken to her about why she stayed and it all comes down to the reasons @katalavenete posted on page one of the thread.

She was scared.

He told her that if she tried to leave he would take us, legally if he could and illegally if he couldn't. He had dual citizenship and said he'd take us abroad so she wouldn't ever get us back. When he was being financially abusive she once shoplifted a coat and some shoes which she returned next day for a cash refund. She knew it was wrong but she needed money. He told her he would go to the police and she would be jailed, it would also result in her losing custody of us. He told her he would kill her, kill us, and then kill himself. He would show her newspaper articles and magazine stories where men had done that exact thing. He took her on trips where he'd show her exactly where he would bury our bodies if he ever had to kill us. He told her that women's refuges were full of drug addicts and people who would steal your stuff. That they would rehouse her miles away from her family and friends. That she would have no money other than benefits and there would be no maintenance from him. That no matter where we went he would find us because he would never stop looking so we would spend our lives looking over our shoulders.

She stayed to protect us because he had her afraid that leaving would make things worse. At least if she was there then she could run interference and get in between him and us.

There was a lot she didn't know too. The times when she wasn't there and he would start on us for the usual things - looked at him in an insolent way, being too loud, being suspiciously quiet, back answering, etc. - we rarely told her about them afterwards because he had us scared too. He would tell us that mum had told him to speak to us about our behaviour so then what was the point of going to her about it after if she was the one who ordered it? Or he would tell us that if we told her then she would realise how unlikeable we were, how unloveable, because only unlikeable unloveable children get told off like that and we didn't want her to learn the truth about us or else she would leave us. He said that he would ring the children's home to come and take us away because they would happier without us and if we upset our mum by telling tales about our "chats" then he would remove the source of that upset (us). He would do drills where he would drag us out of bed, make us pack a bag each, and then make us sit on the doorstep to wait for the man from the children's home. We had to say our goodbyes to one another because we'd be split up on arrival. After a while he would let us back in and back to bed but again with the warnings not to tell mum.

When she eventually found all of this out she was horrified and said if she had known then she would have risked leaving with us instead of waiting until we were 18. She waited until we were 18 so we were free of him and she only had to get herself out, she thought it was less risky. Even then he tried to follow through on all those threats he'd made over the years and attempted to kill her and two of us, made very specific threats that resulted in all of us having police markers on our homes and safety devices fitted, it was awful enough as adults and I'm glad now that she didn't try it when we were children because I don't think we would have come out of it alive.

I'd recommend therapy, OP. Lots and lots of therapy. It helps.

I was being abused emotionally, Mentally and Financially. But as I was ill, Couldn't walk, Couldn't work, Two small children to look after so I thought I had no option but to stay where I was.

As soon as he started on our 3yo DS (picked him up and threw him across the room and then kicked the front out of his wooden toy box) I found options, Was housed in a council homeless unit and eventually rehomed. Best thing I ever did, I absolutely LOVE my life now.

So, I can understand why some people stay when it is just them being abused, But can't get my head round why anyone would allow their children to be abused.

@laptopscreen I tried to move my daughter out from her father's (he uses coercive control) but he persuaded her she was in the best place. Got an emergency pso and child arrangement order. I've already been told by multiple solicitors that I have no chance of getting her out. Social services and the school are no use either.

Also, OP... I went back “into the fold” several times believing they had changed or that things had changed, which of course was complete crap. Why did I do this? Because I wanted to believe this. Disney has sold me the bullshit that people can change. The Bible has told me that people are redeemable. I wanted to believe the hype and that we could have a happy family. That never happened. Both of my parents are dead and they died horribly. I did the right thing and supported them to the end to show my own kids what decent human beings do, but they did not redeem themselves at the end. In fact, their personalities concentrated and they showed their worst traits. (Fortunately, publically). I grieve for the parents I never had. My kids have loving parents though! There is always room for evolution!

I kind of forgave my mum, as I know she was scared of my dad, and felt trapped and was controlled by him, even though financially she would have been fine, she was a medical doctor.

She knows she should have left him sooner (she did once but stupidly fell for his fake promises and went back).
They eventually split when I was 17/18, and he even got half the house as we weren't dependents any more and she didn't have the energy to fight him over money.

She has expressed that she wished she had left him sooner but I'm not sure if she ever fully understood the ongoing emotional impact of a childhood in an abusive home, as had grown up in a happy home, with parents that loved each other and had their children's best interests at heart.

I was never particularly close to her but cared for her for years as she got old, and made my peace with the past.

When I wrote her eulogy I
couldn't write a single word about her long marriage to my dad as it was just all so completely awful. Just how many kids they had and that's it. Says it all really.

I agree with therapy it's the best thing I ever did and just choosing to let it go.

I worked through my own emotions and then that's it. Its in a box in my mind and I rarely think of it now. I learnt to make small choices every day that were different.

I have the relationships I want with the people I want. I work hard at having a healthy marriage and relationships with my children. We have a happy home.

I feel now I have a choice I can let my childhood define my adulthood and take over my mind and feel anger or I can build what ever future I want.

I don't have experience of abuse and I'm so sorry for those who do. Imo the problem lies in the disparate roles between men and women still so prevalent in society.

How many women on here want to leave their partners but can't afford it, or have no local support because they left their families behind to move away to suit their partner? It's so common as to be the norm isn't it?

Both my best friends moved away to be near their husbands job. Took his name. Started doing the care for their in laws etc. None of this was discussed, it was considered to be a given expectation in marriage.

When women aren't the default lower partner in families and have as much capital as men - money, free time, social approval for their choices etc - then they might have the power to make choices that work better for them.

Because leaving a relationship with someone who has controlled your live and eroded your entire self worth is incredibly difficult.

Dont forget too that abuse often includes periods of kind and loving behaviour too. It's a cycle of abusive behaviour, remorse, forgiveness, loving, and then back to abuse. My dad was always very sorry after his outbursts, he would cry, he would offer to leave, he'd wish himself dead, and of course we would forgive him because we could see how sorry he was. We would then go through a period where he would shower us with gifts, time, attention, affection, he would be the worlds best dad/husband and we would feel a hundred feet tall with him on our side. This would last anything from a few hours to a few days even to a few weeks now and again then the anger would start to creep back in, the snapping, the remarks, and you knew a blow up was coming. That was the worst bit, knowing it was coming but not knowing when it was going to land. We would be torn between keeping him sweet to avoid it and provoking him to get it over and done with so then you feel like it's your fault and you caused it because you either weren't good enough to stop it happening or you brought it on yourself by pushing him into it.

I don’t really see it as blame for my DM but a breakdown of trust. I can’t ever fully trust her. She was his victim, but she was an adult and I wasn’t

I've worked with people in this area.

Sometimes they are so separated from friends and family that they literally have no where to go.

Sometimes they literally have no access to any money at all.

Sometimes they are so scared about the abuser coming after the children or getting unsupervised access that they figure it safer to stay where they can try and protect the kids..

Sometimes they reach out for help, the police arrest the abuser and they smash their way back in and nothing can be done as tenancy or house is in both names.

Sometimes they are just so beaten down by it they have no energy to fight anymore.

Traumatic bonding is an interesting thing to read about. It's similar to stockholm syndrome - the abuser essentially becomes the source to their victim of both abuse but also solace and recovery, to such an extent that the victim cannot conceive of how to manage without their abuser.

They also claim that they are dependent on the victim (this is always a lie). The victim feels responsible for the abuser - sometimes more so than their own children - and feels they cannot leave as the abuser may literally die and they cannot cope with that.

It is almost never true but that is not the point. Because the victim is so far in that they can't see it.

Also I believe many abused women are in complete denial about how the abuse they suffer affects their DC. They think that it is "just" them and they worry about the impact of breaking up on their DC. Sometimes they believe that their presence is protective of DC and they are stopping the abuser from moving on to their children by being present. This is almost never true either - children are harmed by abuse and another parent being present doesn't lessen the severity of abuse towards children. However, the fear that the abuser may hurt or even kill the children as revenge for the woman leaving is in many cases not unfounded, and our legal system doesn't do nearly enough to prevent this, IMO.

Other reasons for believing the children are not in relative danger would be having grown up in an abusive environment themselves and therefore believing it is normal. Or believing that all relationships/men are secretly like this, and not everyone else in the world is single, so it's OK to stay in a relationship because that is just what relationships are like.

Abusers are very good at control and ensuring that their first victim - in your case, your mother - 'know' that they can't ever cope on their own, that they won't be believed, that the children will be taken away - and often, that their children hate the parent/victim just as much, if not more.

Just look at the 'weak' comments here to show how well the abusers have convinced their secondary victim that it's the primary victim's fault. Just what the abuser wanted.

@Maybe83 I don’t let my childhood define my adulthood but it would be a lie to say it hasn’t affected me. I have had therapy but I suffer from ptsd which won’t ‘just go away’
Every time someone even waves close to me I flinch. I’ve been out of the abuse for 12 years now and that still happens. It’s subconscious
I change the things I can, I went back and got my qualifications get my career earn enough I’ll always be self sufficient but I don’t think these events will ever rest peacefully within me. And actually having dc has made many things resurface.

Sometimes the abuser threatens the other person with more violence that no one will believe them and they will get custody of the children. For example if the abused parent has mental health issues the abuser says they will loose custody and that they will take the children where they will never see them again. They are so scared to leave because if they are telling the truth and you have no evidence they could take the kids and harm them. In order to protect the children they stay put where they can protect them rather than risk their children being alone with the abuser.

So much anger directed at abused women and not at the father who was the abuser. No one willingly stays in these situations. People stay out of sheer terror of what would happen if they left, total financial dependence and a lack of support (or not knowing where to go for support) for the victim.

These abusive men are incredibly manipulative. They will have convinced these women that they will never see their children again if they leave or even that they will be killed.

Oh, and if you think that one of those people who heard 'something' or saw 'something' was ever going to go to a solicitor, make a statement, then attend court and be cross examined on their statement, you'd be wrong. People say they would, but when it comes down to actually doing it, they melt away like snow in summer.

I think I stay primarily because although its bad it’s not bad 100% of the time , it’s 20 bad and 80 ok

But I think also it would absaloutely destroy DP and that would hugely impact my children . Despite his idiosyncrasies they love him dearly and he them.

There is something holding me back from pulling the plug and despite therapy , stating Freedom I still don’t know what it is

We are talking anger and unhappiness here , no violence

We have had SS involvement which was a wake up call for everyone and things have improved a bit . At least for the kids

But I never rule it out and threads like this upset me enormously . I feel guilty all the time

The thread was why women stay, not why men do it hence less emphasis on talking about the Male role in this

I have no love for my father, no trust and I won’t cry when he is gone. I do love my mother, and I have sympathy for her but unfortunately the situation is never one size fits all, no abusive situation is the same as another. It is more statistically likely an abuser will be Male and also that women find it difficult to leave under control and limited finances

You may be hearing from people on this thread who feel let down by both their parents, and feel abused and let down in some ways by them both. You also heard from people who have huge sympathy for their mother and don’t blame them

I would be lying if I came into a thread like this and wasn’t honest that abuse can destroy all the relationships, even the one with your mother, because she stayed. I don’t believe their is a right or a wrong in this - just that it can happen. You can’t blame children for feeling let down by their parents. We see our mothers as the nurturing, protective person in our lives and when that doesn’t seem to happen - because she’s afraid - it can set off a chain of emotional events for a child, not knowing who to really trust, not having an escape and feeling trapped.

If one woman stops and considers that is IS strong enough to leave such a man, then I will tell them that this is the right thing to do. I saw the other thread re alienation and I have encountered this myself on a lower level with my own child, and my own ex partner. But I had to calculate the impact of whether long term it was better to be apart from that person, and let the DC at least try to be mostly free of him, until they could choose or stay and all 3 of us be unhappy and then risk ruining all of our lives

My ex told me if I left him he would get custody of our son because I had been diagnosed with depression. I believed him. It took me two years to find the courage to believe in myself and get rid.

My dad was abusive. My mum tried to leave many times but went back many times as she had no where to go.

Left school at 15 with no qualifications.
When she got married was expected to give up work (was expected then)
Got a job as cleaner but my dad found out and went to her employer and told them his wife wasn’t allowed to work (again completely accepted in those days)
Stigma of claiming benefits and not knowing how she would be able to support her children
Social pressure - until recently women were told not to divorce as it would damage the children
She had never had her own bank account or paid her own bills so she didn’t know if she could cope
Being ground down by years of a violent marriage

They stay because:

• their children say they will live with other partner, if the couple divorce/separate;

• they will be in a financial mess if the leave, possibly unemployed, living in poverty and they remember the neglect and teasing they experienced in their own childhood under such circumstances;

• advisers tell them that if there are no bruises or broken bones, it is not abuse;

• they convince themselves they have a plan which will improve the family life and the abuse will stop;

• their partners are vulnerable, perhaps with a mental illness and they feel it is wrong to leave under such circumstances;

• their partners are not abusive all the time and can be loving and great parents as well;

• they feel they are a protective factor, because they can take the blows and bellows for their children and calm their partner down;

There are lots of reasons why people stay in an abusive relationship. Very few mothers (or fathers) are so cruel that they would leave the children in an abusive situation if they could find a way out.

OP, you still have zero right to judge. Do you have dc?

Are you aware there is almost no support for DV victims during and post abuse?