To say that the difference between high achievers and low achievers is self discipline?

[equinox32]

Hello,

Was having a discussion with a group of friends recently and the discussion of personality types came up.

I put it out there that the people who are most successful usually have a stand out personality trait, that they are very self disciplined and delay instant gratification for long term goals.

One of my friends got really offended and said that just because people are not successful, it doesn't mean they are lazy. I wasn't actually saying that, but I would say laziness is associated with those with low discipline.

I am lucky enough to mix with a large group of people. My family background is reasonably well off, stable home, but my husband comes from a family which is quite 'working class', constant struggle for money and low level jobs. We both share our social circle and I see a lot of different type of people.

His family, are really quite low disciplined. Lovely people, but they will always choose instant pleasure over saving or waiting. They have no long term outlook, disorganised, useless with money and 'live for the moment'. Since being with my husband, I have come to enjoy some elements of their approach, but most of it frustrates me.

My family are quite different. We were all expected to do chores as we grew up, keep the house tidy, make our beds etc. Takeaway was once a month (not due to lack of funds). Our parents took a great interest in our education. We had pocket money, but if we ran out there would be no more until the next one came along, to teach us the value of money.

So my theory is this. Intellect is one thing, but if you do not have the self discipline required to do the right thing, you won't get as far. If you are of average intellect but highly self disciplined, you will achieve success.

There was an article (trying to find it), that interviewed top CEO's and most of them indicated they have great self-discipline.

Another interesting thing I heard on the radio:

As time goes on, people who are similar end up together and have families. Since self-discipline is linked to higher intellect, the theory is that in a few hundred years you will have two groups. Highly intelligent, self disciplined people and low intelligence and low self discipline people.

Anyway, AIBU? Is self discipline the most important trait for success?

100% agree that it's self discipline. My family are like your husband's. Not sure where I came from!

Oh dear...

Well it’s all very well for someone like you (A toff born with a diamanté cutlery set in your mouth to to have to that view.
How for a lot of people here in the RW it’s not that straightforward.

What about those with learning disabilities.
Those that no matter how hard they try they just don’t get that break. There are such people.
Your thread seems a tad disablist to me.

OP changed her tune too. Initial post was definitely homily on
My middle class family = epitome self discipline
My DHs working class family= zero self discipline
And higher IQ is linked to self discipline, so I and my family are more clever than DH and his family.

Now she is trying to spin it to “if Everything is exactly the same, self discipline helps”

I agree that she thinks she has “married down” & I pity her DH.

YABU

I know many "successful" people who are lazy fuckers. Yes they have a gift. The gift of talking utter shite and getting people to believe it. Many of them are not nice people.

I also know people who by your definition would not be considered successful. Maybe your definition is flawed.

I work in a low paid job doing charity work. I am highly educated, love my job and have a happy home life. I don't suppose you would consider me successful but I am.

A difficult start can affect some people well into their adult life. It might be basic such as finding shelter, food etc however once that has been overcome it could be other factors such as turning up for a job in time, accepting authority and following instructions . Maslow’s triangle of needs explains this in that if people cannot meet their fundamental needs, then their expectations of achieving higher needs are undermined as even with the best will in the world the motivation to succeed isn’t there. Some people may be motivated and able to set their goals higher and if they are also starting at higher level to begin with ie their basic needs such as food, shelter etc have been met , then they are already one step ahead.

I suspect many people on here railing at me know they lack self discipline and thus feeling like I am attacking them directly. The truth hurts I know

If you look at the vast majority of posters, they object to your utter lack of any rationale for your potty generalisations about a mass of people based on er...your family.

That being said, it is a lot easier to sit there and blame everybody getting a better start in life than you, rather than doing something to improve your own situation

I don't think anyone has done this. They have made observations backed up by research. Which is more than you have done.

Privilege and environment are key.

I'm high achieving by almost any standard: I also consider myself to be a lazy ass (in comparison to what I could be).

I'd certainly say most people who are in jobs where they do manual work (for instance) work a lot harder than I do and probably have more self-discipline.

That said, almost no one in my family would agree with this probably.

"I agree that she thinks she has “married down” & I pity her DH."

This. Her other thread is quite interesting too (yes I looked).

See when it comes to crisps and chocolate - no self discipline. When it comes to work, highly disciplined and motivated. Like pp it depends what high achieving means. Having lots of money? Size 8? Loving family? I don’t think your argument makes sense outside of your own little successful life. Pat yourself on the back, well done! Maybe post on Instagram? #livingyourbestlife

Research show that poverty on an ongoing basis erodes your ability to delay gratification. You'd do well to read up on behavioural economics OP. An environment of scarcity is destructive.

I agree with the poster who said you don't seem very well read, tbh. You have very simplistic and narrow world views.

Perhaps start by looking at Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and realise how many needs of yours were fulfilled right from your birth - that you didn't ever have to think about, let alone worry about. In contrast there are numerous children and adults who are constantly struggling to meet even their basic needs.

Structural inequality is the problem, not some abstract pious notion of self discipline.

All it takes is self discipline to become a high achiever eh?

Oh, if only life were that straight forward and every thing was as black and white as it seems to be in your world OP.

There are a mass of reasons why some people are high achievers and some achieve nothing.

You sound very young and lacking any understanding of the delicate balances of so many people's lives and what makes them what they are.

No there won’t be two groups of people. Overall intellect will decrease because those who are breeding shouldn’t be. And those who should be, aren’t breeding enough.

Self-discipline means a person deciding to be something and then disciplining themselves to do it. So seems easy. But if say you were abused by your DF/ horribly bullied at school/ traumatised by a damaging parents' divorce when small your ability to discipline yourself, due to shame/ hating yourself/ sadness would be lacking and your belief that I deserve this money, qualifications etc would not be there so you won't achieve what you otherwise are able to.
If it was just self discipline why pay for little Johnny to go to private school, or the best uni- I've instilled good discipline into him he should do v well.

I was ‘successful’.

I wouldn’t say it took any particular self discipline at all. More, an extremely privileged education that gave me the ability to present myself well, combined with a reasonably high level of intelligence.

I reached the top of my career. Success - tick.

Then I had children. One of whom is severely disabled and life-limited. This meant me giving up my career, having to sell our house etc.

And I can tell you, it takes a great deal more self-discipline to just keep going every day, lifting and carrying and administering meds, doggedly project managing the various NHS and social care teams that are now a constant in our lives, keeping things as normal as possible for my other child, maintaining some sort of home and marriage, and getting on with the scraps of self-employed work I can do in between all of this, than it ever did to ‘succeed’ in my previous life.

We ‘live for the moment’ because, frankly, we know that the next moment might be shit, or it might not come at all.

Self-discipline means a person deciding to be something and then disciplining themselves to do it

That I would say was single mindedness

And I can tell you, it takes a great deal more self-discipline to just keep going every day, lifting and carrying and administering meds, doggedly project managing the various NHS and social care teams that are now a constant in our lives, keeping things as normal as possible for my other child, maintaining some sort of home and marriage, and getting on with the scraps of self-employed work I can do in between all of this, than it ever did to ‘succeed’ in my previous life.

This, with bells on.

Being a carer or a person with disabilities means maintaining levels of determination, resilience and gumption every single day that is not recognised and is often ignored, except by others in similar positions.

Good mental health is pretty helpful too. Pushing your way to the top is stressful and lots of people don't like if you do it either.

And I can tell you, it takes a great deal more self-discipline to just keep going every day, lifting and carrying and administering meds, doggedly project managing the various NHS and social care teams that are now a constant in our lives, keeping things as normal as possible for my other child, maintaining some sort of home and marriage, and getting on with the scraps of self-employed work I can do in between all of this, than it ever did to ‘succeed’ in my previous life.

And yet it seems that it is in part self-discipline that is helping you carry out this very heavy load. If you didn’t have the ability: learned or inherent, to make lists and follow through, to juggle all the balls, to keep going, to push for things to happen, even when you’re exhausted and fed up, your child would suffer. I don’t think ‘success’ necessarily means only financial or career achievements, does it? I’d say it extends to personal and family life too. Obviously resilience and perhaps more than anything else, love, play a huge part too. But self-discipline seems to be a dirty word on MN and I’m not sure why. I need to finish painting a ceiling—my least favourite job. I’d rather read the papers and if I do, it will be my lack of SD that’s to blame. Obviously that’s a very minor example!

My mother had immense amounts of self discipline and for all the work and effort she put in it has been for nothing.

She would rather paint a ceiling than spend time with her children or making friends or chatting to people or reading a paper.
There was always something she had to do.

I on the other hand will prioritise spending time with my children, making friends and chatting to people and reading the paper.

From one news article I read my brain made a connection to a conversation I had with someone I had met a few weeks earlier.

6 weeks later I had made enough to paint a 1000 ceilings

I think what makes people successful isn’t self discipline or constantly working hard but being open to everyone, confidence and the ability to work smart and knowing what you want.

She would rather paint a ceiling than spend time with her children or making friends or chatting to people or reading a paper.
There was always something she had to do.

I actually think that self-discipline should include making time for those you love—it is more important than anything else. Otherwise, what’s it all for?

Oh yes, everything you hear on the radio is correct....

The whole post is absurd.

I think OP is onto something. Just this morning I was thinking of a couple of exemplars of this, namely:

(1) our current prime minister - as holder of the top job he's arguably the most high achieving person in the country; and

(2) the founder of the Innotech Network - from humble beginnings she's become a thought leader in a very competive field.

the one thing you'd notice about both is their inexaustible reserves of self discipline.