To say that the difference between high achievers and low achievers is self discipline?

[equinox32]

Hello,

Was having a discussion with a group of friends recently and the discussion of personality types came up.

I put it out there that the people who are most successful usually have a stand out personality trait, that they are very self disciplined and delay instant gratification for long term goals.

One of my friends got really offended and said that just because people are not successful, it doesn't mean they are lazy. I wasn't actually saying that, but I would say laziness is associated with those with low discipline.

I am lucky enough to mix with a large group of people. My family background is reasonably well off, stable home, but my husband comes from a family which is quite 'working class', constant struggle for money and low level jobs. We both share our social circle and I see a lot of different type of people.

His family, are really quite low disciplined. Lovely people, but they will always choose instant pleasure over saving or waiting. They have no long term outlook, disorganised, useless with money and 'live for the moment'. Since being with my husband, I have come to enjoy some elements of their approach, but most of it frustrates me.

My family are quite different. We were all expected to do chores as we grew up, keep the house tidy, make our beds etc. Takeaway was once a month (not due to lack of funds). Our parents took a great interest in our education. We had pocket money, but if we ran out there would be no more until the next one came along, to teach us the value of money.

So my theory is this. Intellect is one thing, but if you do not have the self discipline required to do the right thing, you won't get as far. If you are of average intellect but highly self disciplined, you will achieve success.

There was an article (trying to find it), that interviewed top CEO's and most of them indicated they have great self-discipline.

Another interesting thing I heard on the radio:

As time goes on, people who are similar end up together and have families. Since self-discipline is linked to higher intellect, the theory is that in a few hundred years you will have two groups. Highly intelligent, self disciplined people and low intelligence and low self discipline people.

Anyway, AIBU? Is self discipline the most important trait for success?

I think self discipline is a trait that falls on a normally distributed bell curve, but that actually most people have pretty similar levels of self discipline, so therefore it is the outliers you notice more - either the exceptionally lazy or very self motivated.

The very self motivated ones will be successful or very successful, extent of success will be down to background (how much of a leg up they've had by parental money / position) more than anything else.

The very lazy will either do OK (because of parental privilege) or terribly (in the absence of money / privilege),which is where it isn't fair.

But generally I am glad we live in a meritocratic society, most people work moderately hard and do OK. A few people work harder than average and tend to do better.

(1) our current prime minister - as holder of the top job he's arguably the most high achieving person in the country

Is that a joke? Nothing to do with his immensely priveledged upbringing and private education then? He has demonstrated numerous times a lack of self-discipline through his numerous extra marital affairs. There is a difference between self-serving and self-discipline.

Deserving and undeserving poor:

medium.com/@ebruenig/the-undeserving-poor-a-very-tiny-history-96c3b9141e13

Hoolajerry I think there was a touch of irony in the post about the PM

Well people's own opinion of what constitutes success varies, naturally - there is always going to be a difference of opinion there.

I do think effort (and especially a long-term view) helps. I don't think being born/raised in poverty means you are going to end up at the bottom of the ladder, nor do I believe that being born/raised in wealth guarantees you a place at the top.

Boris may have got the job he has always wanted, but he will go down in history as having lost his first seven votes, which is a record. Even just losing your first vote you'd have to go back to Pitt the Younger! He is not successful. He's done nothing so far.

I don't know. My daughter is super lazy and unorganised but she's some kind of weird genius and very clever. Wouldn't be surprised if she gets a few 9s without revising in her GCSEs in a cpl of years.

Paintedmaypole ha ha I've just Re-read the post and realised who the other one is too. D'oh!!

"I suspect many people on here railing at me know they lack self discipline and thus feeling like I am attacking them directly. The truth hurts I know."

This has beautifully outed you as a goady poster.

How do you have all this time to craft this stuff when you are so high achieving?

But generally I am glad we live in a meritocratic society, most people work moderately hard and do OK. A few people work harder than average and tend to do better.

Yet knowing the right people (or your parents knowing the right people), going to right school and university and so on gives the people with those privileges a massive advantage over those who don't.

Also pretty sure there are plenty of people on low wages working incredibly hard. DH and I are both on the lower end of the scale, neither of us earning anywhere near average wage, but DH is on less than me and works far, far harder, with worse hours and greater responsibility (for example, I've never had to hire or fire anyone, DH has.)

Biggest load of goody shite, I've read on here!

I think the key differentiator is personal ownership of circumstance and situations

our current prime minister - as holder of the top job he's arguably the most high achieving person in the country

Have you read his school reports? They stress his laziness and his arrogant expectations that everything will just fall into his lap without any effort. Which is pretty well the attitude he has taken to the present political crisis: he doesn't appear to have done any homework on Brexit, the EU, or the WTO; he turns up without preparing his speeches or without even reading the labelling on his own props (that kipper!).

There is no way he could have got to the position he is in, had it not been for his privileged upbringing, the wealth of his family, the contacts that got him, and the fact that there is a certain sector of society that admires the upperclass insouciance manifesting itself in "of course the likes of me don't have to make an effort". Try that if you're the son of a cleaner, educated at the local comp.

Wow - well you’ve certainly wound people up and watched them go OP!

Your post shows a spectacular lack of intelligence to me and as you chose the base of your hypothesis to be a few anecdotal pieces of ‘evidence’ maybe you should do some reading as other posters have suggested, amend your hypothesis and come back to us when you have done some in depth research and developed a well rounded theory instead.

I say this as a well disciplined but woefully unsuccessful individual by your posts estimations. But by my own values I consider myself to be happy in life and that, I feel, is true success.

*The very self motivated ones will be successful or very successful, extent of success will be down to background (how much of a leg up they've had by parental money / position) more than anything else.

The very lazy will either do OK (because of parental privilege) or terribly (in the absence of money / privilege),which is where it isn't fair*

Growing up I was always called lazy because I didn’t see the point in slogging yourself silly over some pointless task.

I consider myself successful but I certainly didn’t get a leg up from anyone

There was a video on YouTube where people stepped forward one step for everything they considered as being privilege.
I think I took one hypothetical step.

If you look around the very lazy don’t do too badly if they have 1/2 a brain.

How many know people who have partners who work their socks off and the sahp is still a sahp when the kids have left for uni

I don’t think hard work means you will be successful

Apart from the obvious fact that I'm mumsnetting at work, I also have found my laziness a considerable strength at work.

I've looked at various operations systems since I was first employed, and thought 'I can't be arsed doing all that'. So I systemize and make efficient inefficient practices. In doing so I have knocked massive % off the time taken to work tasks, massively increasing the output of the whole team. (all they've had to do is pick up my much simplified versions of tasks).

My company have very sensibly rewarded and promoted me for this - the alternative is hiring and maintaining a much larger staff, instead of just me. I am successful because I am lazy and intelligent.

Your basic mistake, OP, seems to be that you decide that everybody has the same longterm goal and that this goal can be measured in economic success and status.

I consider myself very goal-driven, but my goal is to write the very best work I can in my discipline and be remembered for this work over the next hundred years at least. This means long working hours and sacrifice. It also means that I would turn down any attempt to promote me above the paygrade where I can actually get to do this work. The well remunerated work in my field is the work that would shut me out from my goal. Leaving my field for something else that was better paid would also shut me out. I have no interest in earning lots of money or having a fancy title if I can't do the work I feel I was born to do.

Other people- nurses, careworkers, teachers- adopt the same attitude as me but from far nobler motives. If you feel the work, rather than the status it gives you, is the point, then you will devote your self-discipline to doing more of it, not to being promoted away from it. Plenty of teachers do NOT want to become headteachers, precisely because they know they are good at teaching and make a difference to the kids they teach.

If I become Dean, unless I made a mess of it, I would not be remembered for very long at all. If I write the book I hope to write, I will be remembered a lot longer. I am ambitious and believe I am hard-working enough: I want to be remembered. I want people to say after I am dead "her teaching, her book really made a difference to my life".