To say that the difference between high achievers and low achievers is self discipline?

[equinox32]

Hello,

Was having a discussion with a group of friends recently and the discussion of personality types came up.

I put it out there that the people who are most successful usually have a stand out personality trait, that they are very self disciplined and delay instant gratification for long term goals.

One of my friends got really offended and said that just because people are not successful, it doesn't mean they are lazy. I wasn't actually saying that, but I would say laziness is associated with those with low discipline.

I am lucky enough to mix with a large group of people. My family background is reasonably well off, stable home, but my husband comes from a family which is quite 'working class', constant struggle for money and low level jobs. We both share our social circle and I see a lot of different type of people.

His family, are really quite low disciplined. Lovely people, but they will always choose instant pleasure over saving or waiting. They have no long term outlook, disorganised, useless with money and 'live for the moment'. Since being with my husband, I have come to enjoy some elements of their approach, but most of it frustrates me.

My family are quite different. We were all expected to do chores as we grew up, keep the house tidy, make our beds etc. Takeaway was once a month (not due to lack of funds). Our parents took a great interest in our education. We had pocket money, but if we ran out there would be no more until the next one came along, to teach us the value of money.

So my theory is this. Intellect is one thing, but if you do not have the self discipline required to do the right thing, you won't get as far. If you are of average intellect but highly self disciplined, you will achieve success.

There was an article (trying to find it), that interviewed top CEO's and most of them indicated they have great self-discipline.

Another interesting thing I heard on the radio:

As time goes on, people who are similar end up together and have families. Since self-discipline is linked to higher intellect, the theory is that in a few hundred years you will have two groups. Highly intelligent, self disciplined people and low intelligence and low self discipline people.

Anyway, AIBU? Is self discipline the most important trait for success?

Goady, much?

Oh no I disagree. I wouldn't call myself self disciplined, not in the context you describe. I'm a "want everything right now" person, incredibly impatient, quite impetuous actually but have a very confident and determined attitude. I won't blow my own trumpet with an in-depth look into my successes, but I've achieved quite a bit by quite a young age (while having a family young- aka wanting to have it all) I don't think self discipline came into it much other than I kept my mind on track, but it was confidence and determination rather than self discipline, self discipline implies having to do something despite not quite wanting to? If I don't want to do something I don't, and vice versa, and lots of successful people I know seem quite similar.

Yabu. Self discipline helps but there are lots of other influences too.

I hope you are right. DD is severely dyslexic and has all the drive, ambition and self discipline you could ever hope for. She wants to be a vet. It's not looking too great so far but you sound like you believe it so....

There's some truth is what you're saying OP.

I'm intelligent in terms of raw brain power and ability to learn things. I come from a middle-ish class stable family. But my self discipline is terrible, and I can't stick to a routine to save my life. I cruised through school, then saw the difference at university, when it was the really hard workers who did well, and it's the same pattern at work. I just cannot apply myself effectively, despite my intelligence and privilege. I do ok at work, better since I met my husband and he helps drive me forward, but I've not reached my potential.

The end of your argument is bullshit however. Privilege makes the biggest difference to a life. When you start with a leg up you remain well ahead, and get the luck and opportunities falling into your lap.

Christ on a bike there's so much wrong with the original post. I don't even know which part to begin with...

Was going to write something sarky about the boards of directors of massive companies being filled with women, BAME people and people from deprived areas but figured that was playing into your hands.

Instead I'll give the stock answer that there are many factors involved. Self dicispline is probably way down the list for most.

The bit you heard on the radio doesn't make sense.We've been around for thousands of years or has high and low achievement only just arrived.
You don't actually say what you mean by high achievers,do you mean people like Boris Johnson.

Towards the end of your post you describe eugenics, popularised by the Nazis & resulting in the holocaust. I'm surprised that such an intelligent as yourself didn't realise this.

The first daughter comes to mind for some reason, funny that.
She has done exceptionally well though, I am so very proud of her

Sounds like a great hypothesis, you should absolutely do an experiment, maybe get a load of kids, some marshmallows and offer them 2 if they can avoid eating it for a little while. You can probably get some funding from Stanford for it....

🍿

This is so one dimensional its unreal.

So lets indulge you in your argument and move it on a bit. What would you do with the lower, poorly disciplined sector of society? Confine them to manual jobs because thats where they belong due to their personality traits? Cap their wage because they'd just spend it impulsively?

This one dimensional view of society is terrible and is so damaging

@sirfredfredgeorge I chuckled.

digitalsynopsis.com/inspiration/privileged-kids-on-a-plate-pencilsword-toby-morris/

Dick

All of the above, plus luck and knowing what you want.

But what is 'achievement'? Is it getting what you want, or some measure that society puts on it. It certainly isn't just money.

I agree with you.

Agree with you OP

@Thehagonthehill

If Boris Johnson is what success looks like I hope to God my kids choose to be under achievers, because if they end up anything like him I KNOW I'll have failed them. Or Trump for that matter, if Trump is success I'll pass thanks.

YABU. Privilege plays a huge part in success. Self discipline is of limited help when you’re already starting from the back. Watch this video, it demonstrates the impact of privilege very well.

How do you define success ? Rather like beauty I’d say it’s in the eye of the beholder .

Have I got this right?

You come from a well off middle class family where you saw great parental involvement with education and high achievement.

Your DH comes from a working class family with lower levels of all the above.

And you conclude that it must be down to individual hard work and grit. I see. THAT must be it.

Here you go - have some biscuits.

Interestingly, research would support your stance,
www.scientificamerican.com/article/where-theres-a-will/

Jeez you’re a fud!

It’s a very complex issue I think.
I think you can’t succeed wo self discipline, be it having some savings or successfully managing your company.
However, you can be very disciplined and still struggling and not be successful in the way people usually mean it, aka financially.

So my parents were self disciplined, worked hard and did very well for themselves.
My PIL worked just as hard and were just as self disciplined and financially struggled most if their life. When H was little, they were poor.
Between those two couples, the difference I believe has been the type of work they were doing. Neither of them had family support, financial support etc.... but my PIL were farmers and my dad was an accountant (even though he didn’t start like this, he had no qualifications as such, not did my mum) and that in itself has been enough to make a huge difference in the life they’ve had