To say that the difference between high achievers and low achievers is self discipline?

[equinox32]

Hello,

Was having a discussion with a group of friends recently and the discussion of personality types came up.

I put it out there that the people who are most successful usually have a stand out personality trait, that they are very self disciplined and delay instant gratification for long term goals.

One of my friends got really offended and said that just because people are not successful, it doesn't mean they are lazy. I wasn't actually saying that, but I would say laziness is associated with those with low discipline.

I am lucky enough to mix with a large group of people. My family background is reasonably well off, stable home, but my husband comes from a family which is quite 'working class', constant struggle for money and low level jobs. We both share our social circle and I see a lot of different type of people.

His family, are really quite low disciplined. Lovely people, but they will always choose instant pleasure over saving or waiting. They have no long term outlook, disorganised, useless with money and 'live for the moment'. Since being with my husband, I have come to enjoy some elements of their approach, but most of it frustrates me.

My family are quite different. We were all expected to do chores as we grew up, keep the house tidy, make our beds etc. Takeaway was once a month (not due to lack of funds). Our parents took a great interest in our education. We had pocket money, but if we ran out there would be no more until the next one came along, to teach us the value of money.

So my theory is this. Intellect is one thing, but if you do not have the self discipline required to do the right thing, you won't get as far. If you are of average intellect but highly self disciplined, you will achieve success.

There was an article (trying to find it), that interviewed top CEO's and most of them indicated they have great self-discipline.

Another interesting thing I heard on the radio:

As time goes on, people who are similar end up together and have families. Since self-discipline is linked to higher intellect, the theory is that in a few hundred years you will have two groups. Highly intelligent, self disciplined people and low intelligence and low self discipline people.

Anyway, AIBU? Is self discipline the most important trait for success?

Snap

Confidence is more important than self discipline I’d say.

YABVVU. Everything else being equal persistance is a quality that increases the prospect of success, but everything else isn't equal, is it?

I raise your and give you

No, it's money.

Wow.

You said it. Coming from a stable, supportive family background is the single thing that makes the most difference IMO.

Knowing that you are loved unconditionally and can make mistakes builds a kind of confidence that just can't be learned and a sense of self worth that takes a lifetime to "earn" if you weren't lucky enough to be born to it. These things stay with you for a lifetime

Get your hard hat on OP

Privilege obviously plays a huge part, OP - it's great being able to be disciplined and focus on education, making beds, etc but lots of people have to focus on just surviving.

YANBU

Grit

It also comes down to luck and circumstances. A female career for the elderly isn’t going to be as successful money wise as someone with no ties. Same for mothers of children with SEN they have to be available.

Those with money don’t tend to worry about it like those without.

Besides the ins and outs, money ain’t the only success criteria.

There are many traits you need to succeed. I think the most important one is perseverance. The second most important one is a utilising a lucky break. You have to be at the right place at the right time - do the right thing and you’re set on a lifelong path.

Depends on what you define high achiever as.
Money is not necessary the answer.

I was willing to take you at face value until the last sentence which has absolutely no relevance to the rest of the post and outs you as a goady fucker

Self discipline helps. Not as much as privilege though.

Rarely have I seen such a staggering disregard for one's own privilege and such an amazing lack of understanding of basic human psychology.

I say that as someone who would be deemed highly successful by any measure and who comes from a very working class background.

Go away and read something about the world, hell go and experience it even, before you congratulate yourself and family on your self discipline.

You have entirely mixed up cause, effect and correlation. In fact, cause and effect tend to be the exact opposite to that which you are assuming in the 'lazy' family.

Ha ha ha ha ha. What about opportunity? Supportive parent(s)? The money to be able to go to university? Private education? Self-belief.

I agree with RedRedBluee that confidence plays a big part. I've seen a lot of people in middle/senior management whose self-belief outweighs their ability to do the job. And a lot of people who could achieve a higher position but just don't have the confidence/ambition.

It depends what you value. Many writers artists naturalists bird watchers gardeners etc are highly driven in their area. That’s not going to make them CEOs.

My uni boyfriend was from a very wealthy family and driven to work very hard in private banking and have a second home in sandbanks.
I have never wanted to make lots of money I wanted my work to have a creative outlet and do social good. I also only work 30 hours a week and value family time over extra income / promotion for me and dh.

This is the lie we tell ourselves in order to believe in meritocracy, that people who succeed have worked harder, are smarter, are more disciplined. It justifies the lowering of welfare benefits and the like. It makes it a matter of personal discipline and makes poverty/destitution and "failure" a matter of individual character and choice, creating an illusion of control over our lives.

It stops us seeing the problems as institutional, societal, systematic failures and instead as personal ones. It means you can look down on people and feel comfortable in your illusion of superiority based on what is, for the most part, the card you are dealt before you are even born. If your body fails you or not, if you're sick or disabled or got a mental illness, if you're born poor, if you're abused or not, if you're given the nature or nurture to thrive at school or not, if you're raised on processed foods by parents who don't understand or can't afford proper nutrition or not, how many siblings you have, whether you're parents are working every hour, the nursery, school, college or university you go to, the people you meet, etc. Etc.

It's not always about trying harder, because not everybody is starting in the same place or has the same resources.

YANBU to say that self discipline is important.

YABU to say it isTHE (as in, one and only) difference.

IQ, EQ, education, parental expectation, role models, cultural conditioning, stable/adverse home life, to name but a few other factors that make a difference.

So you’re essentially saying that low achievers lack self-discipline and are lazy and don’t have a long term outlook?

Based on your anecdotal evidence, correlation does not imply causation. That can be other external factors in play. People may have self discipline and a high level of intellect but are just simply unlucky in life, that doesn’t mean that they are low achievers or lack self discipline etc.