Am I being unfair?

[stillhavenoidea]

Posted in Parenting but donning my hard hat and reposting here for traffic...

It's a long one....

Ds9 dad and I have been separated since ds was about 18 months and looking back we should never really have been together. He was very controlling and always thinks his way is the only way but I couldn't see it at the time and it took years for me to actually stand up to him even in small ways.

Our arrangement has always been 50:50 with a 3 day/4 day rotation and he still pays child support which the cms website says he should (had to check this a few times as everything I've seen on mn seems to state that no child support is due if 50:50 arrangement). All of this has just been done between us and I've no idea if the figure is correct as I have no idea what his salary is and what he gives me is plenty as far as I'm concerned. I probably wouldn't have agreed to 50:50 if I wasn't talked into it and told over and over how unreasonable I was being. I wasn't working at the time and DS spends a lot of exes time with his grandparents rather than his dad due to long work hours.

My issue now is that I've been with DP for a few years and am pregnant (ex doesn't know yet and I'm sure he'll have lots to say about it even though he lives with his current DP and her dd). I'd like to move to dp's home town which is 20 miles in one direction from where I am now and ex lives another 10 miles in the opposite direction. I know many exes make it work with that distance but I don't drive so all I can imagine are exes objections and I'm worried that he'll wear me down and convince me I'm being unreasonable. I do think it will mean changing our standing arrangement and ex will get less than 50% which I feel bad about but I'm worried that he'll wear me down again and I'll end up giving in and putting my life on hold again.

Would I really be so unreasonable to move?

What’s the public transport like between the two areas? Once DS is old enough, could he get himself to his dad’s after school once or twice a week and his dad drive him back / to school the next day?

I think you need to accept that the drivers for this change are selfish and for your benefit. That doesn't mean it is necessarily wrong or a bad thing but it is in your benefit so you need to think about any options to make it positive for your ex.

As you have 50 50 care this isn't something that you can do in isolation. You can suggest it to you ex with the weekend proposal and if he agrees then you can do it, but if he disagreed then the status quo dominates and you would have to go through mediation / courts to get permission to move your son as it would involve a school move.

If you really want this then think about how you can make it attractive for your ex, as you're going to need his acceptance if you want to do this easily.

However think hard about losing all weekends as you won't like it, you'll find it really hard not being able to do things together as a family on weekends except in holidays.

@Justherefortheparkingthread It'd be a bus, two trains and then another bus. Trains are great but buses at both ends not so good. Although, I'm sure we could swap buses for lifts. Probably wouldn't be ok with him doing that journey for a good few years tbh

I think like others have said, it's many big changes for your DS at the moment... house /area move, new sibling and new school.

Even without his dad in the picture, those changes are massive.

When you share a child with someone, you just can't up and move, if it means the other person has less time with the child.

Sorry you feel miserable where you live, but it doesn't sound like your ex would be pleased with arrangement.

When DB was getting married his DP wanted to live in her part of the city, but he said he had to stay closer to his DC from his first marriage. It wouldn't have been in the best interests of the DC to see him less, which would have happened with the distance.

Nothing you’re drip feeding is making it sound any better.

You don’t have to move 20 miles to get out of your bad crime and awfully overpriced area. I’m sure I just don’t believe that.

You don’t have to be miserable for 9 years. Your kid will change schools to go to secondary in 1 or 2 years. Maybe start exploring decent schools now in areas you do like that aren’t 20 miles away.

You aren’t considering long term how this might affect your son. I’ll say it again - it’s really hard when one parent moves away - the non-resident parent has to make significant compromises because of distance and time. The child does too - what happens when weekend with dad gala on his best friend’s birthday? Or your new baby’s birthday? Or on a weekend when your mum visits and wants to see him? Or any other reason meaning dad doesn’t get to see him?

I’m sorry but your reasons are selfish. And your evermore emotional responses don’t change that - sorry your ex left you after you moved, but despite you having a new partner and an opportunity to move elsewhere you haven’t considered it seriously until you’re pregnant? It speaks volumes tbh.

I mean you’ve got enough people on your side saying how ex is clearly a shit dad and therefore doesn’t deserve time with his own son, but it sounds like you’ve already justified it yourself anyway.

Sometimes circumstances just CHANGE. I had to move while my children with ex were still quite young. I couldn't afford a car at that point so I did half of all access visits by train with them. I said I would do balfcthe travelling and always stuck to that promise. I simply had to move to get more affordable housing. It wasn't out of spite or for trivial reasons. I was struggling financially and v stressed as a result. In my case different to OP because I never got maintenance but that's another thread!

You don’t have to move 20 miles to get out of your bad crime and awfully overpriced area. I’m sure I just don’t believe that.

You can not believe it all you like but as I haven't said where I live (or in fact whether I rent or own) the. I highly doubt you know. Unless you know the ins and outs of property all over the UK? It's also not based on just moving anywhere randomly on a whim, it would be to somewhere where I actually have a support system.

You don’t have to be miserable for 9 years. Your kid will change schools to go to secondary in 1 or 2 years. Maybe start exploring decent schools now in areas you do like that aren’t 20 miles away

The school is a small part of this. It's not an awful school that he's at now, it's just gone downhill since he started which is noticeable and disappointing as it was such a good school for the first few years. You seem to have ignored all my other points?

You aren’t considering long term how this might affect your son. I’ll say it again - it’s really hard when one parent moves away - the non-resident parent has to make significant compromises because of distance and time

I'm not going into this lightly (if I'm even going into it at all). I've had a parent (and then step parents) move away. I moved schools more times than any kid should because of a both of my parents bad choices which is why I don't want the move to happen until he would be moving school anyway.

what happens when weekend with dad gala on his best friend’s birthday? Or your new baby’s birthday? Or on a weekend when your mum visits and wants to see him? Or any other reason meaning dad doesn’t get to see him?

I would like to think it would be the same as what happens now. If a friends birthday happens then whoever DS is with that day takes him. If it's a family birthday we're both grown up enough to be flexible. My birthday this year was during exes time and vice versa, so DS was with the 'opposite' parent to our schedule. This extends to all family events, weddings, random gatherings even his step mum's birthday DS 'should' have been with me but they get on great and she wanted him there so he was.

I’m sorry but your reasons are selfish. And your evermore emotional responses don’t change that - sorry your ex left you after you moved, but despite you having a new partner and an opportunity to move elsewhere you haven’t considered it seriously until you’re pregnant? It speaks volumes tbh

My reasons probably are selfish but I'm still considering the impact on everyone else before blindly going ahead with it.

I mean you’ve got enough people on your side saying how ex is clearly a shit dad and therefore doesn’t deserve time with his own son, but it sounds like you’ve already justified it yourself anyway

And at least twice I've said he's not a shit dad and I'll say it again. He's a great dad and I'll never say otherwise or sit by while someone else says it.

I certainly didn't expect everyone to agree with me and I was prepared to be told I was unreasonable but actually now I'm more convinced it COULD be doable as long as I can keep it fair so I'll keep thinking about ways I can do that and IF I can then I'll speak to ex

And again I'll say it about the maintenance... HE worked that out and decided it was fair not me. I have since looked and came to the (apparently wrong although I still think the calculator surely doesn't need the '3 or more nights' option if it doesn't actually exist) same conclusion.
I'll tell him that it's wrong and he doesn't need to pay it anymore but he will in that case need to go halves on clothes and uniform etc which is what it's been used for up until now.

• I’m sorry but your reasons are selfish. And your evermore emotional responses don’t change that - sorry your ex left you after you moved, but despite you having a new partner and an opportunity to move elsewhere you haven’t considered it seriously until you’re pregnant? It speaks volumes tbh

My reasons probably are selfish but I'm still considering the impact on everyone else before blindly going ahead with it*

Oh, and I have considered it before but decided the cons outweighed the pros before I even thought about mentioning it to DP, ex or DS. Circumstances are different now so I'm considering it again.

I sympathize with you but AFAIK it's up to the parent who moves to facilitate contact. And I think you might be on shaky ground with the GPs. If they've been providing care for years they might have a case for that to continue.
I think you're going to have to have a real good talk with your ex and his family about how to make it work. They will want the best for DS. Do the GPs drive?

I'd rather be certain it's what I want, then come up with a plan and discuss it with ex and THEN sit down with DS. Ideally ex and I could do it together so DS doesn't feel he's being asked to choose sides
So the poor lad doesn't actually get asked for his opinion or feelings much less given a CHOICE does he?
You will have already made the decision and will just be pretending that he has a say in it.
His only choice will be HAVING TO CHOOSE WHICH PARENT TO LIVE WITH.

If ex and I can't find a way to make it work for all of us between us it will not happen at all. I will suck it up and be miserable for the next 9 years until DS goes to uni if that's what it takes
Oh please - someone bring out the violins

You keep going on about having 'support networks' of mutual friends in the new place to give your argument credibility.....i'm curious, how have you managed to live where you are for the past 9 years without creating any support networks?
You even managed to get into a relationship with someone who didn't live local!

Why can’t you learn to drive?

Why can’t you learn to drive?

The OP explains that very clearly. Many people are also unable to drive because their medical issues mean they're not eligible for a license. That's me.

Sorry OP but some of the responses on this thread are ridiculous. To summarise, and correct me if it's wrong, you have a son with a man who was a rubbish partner but a devoted and decent father to your child. You have both moved on romantically and remain civil and jointly devoted to your son. You are now expecting another child to whom you are equally (not more) devoted. You will need support around you to help with both your children and a move of 20 miles will give you a support system you don't have currently to ensure you can adequately care for them both. Your ex partner will still want access to his child and you want this also because he's a good dad. Is all of that correct? Because if so, we are hardly talking disasters. For the posters saying your son isn't being given a choice, how many people ask their children before they move house?? (Of course this is MN so everyone will say 'oh well I do! We sit down eating rye crackers and drinking unicorn piss whilst I ask them if it's ok if we relocate,' but it's bullshit). For those saying a move is disruptive they are right, it is, but also really exciting depending how you frame it. It's twenty miles not twenty countries you're moving!

To the issue of your partner, as per the previous, you won't know if it can work for him until you discuss it with him. If he's the decent dad you say he is, and he understands that this will give extra support for your family unit, then he will at least be willing to discuss it. Your current partner has said he will help drive so that's a bit of a non-issue really. Just discuss it.

On the topic of money that you're also getting a hard time for, if he feels the amount he's giving for his son is reasonable and you're not pissing it up the wall and driving round in a Ferrari then I can't see the issue there either. He may ask for a perfectly reasonable reduction if he needs to travel more.

Good luck with it all and hope the baby is cooking well.

If you move and keep your son at his current school can you organise the transport for all of your days? If not then you can't make this change if you ex doesn't agree.

In his position I wouldn't agree to loose that amount of time with my child.

I'd off the status quo or to take on the child full time so that you can move.

How would you feel dealing with those options?

GoldenBlue, if you RTFT you’ll see OP has already addressed your points.

@thebakerwithboobs I totally agree with you.

what happens when weekend with dad gala on his best friend’s birthday? Or your new baby’s birthday? Or on a weekend when your mum visits and wants to see him? Or any other reason meaning dad doesn’t get to see him?

I would like to think it would be the same as what happens now. If a friends birthday happens then whoever DS is with that day takes him. If it's a family birthday we're both grown up enough to be flexible. My birthday this year was during exes time and vice versa, so DS was with the 'opposite' parent to our schedule. This extends to all family events, weddings, random gatherings even his step mum's birthday DS 'should' have been with me but they get on great and she wanted him there so he was

That’s not really my point. Son is 9 now - what about when he’s 16? And he has his own social life near your home so doesn’t want to spend time with his dad because it’s a pain in the arse to get there and he has no friends there? You can’t force him to go. I mean, you can’t force a teen to spend time with you but it’s logical that the one you live with you have a better relationship with?

Why mention the school if it’s actually not an issue?

You don’t actually mention support networks at all as a reason for moving to where your DP used to live. A compromise would surely be that you move ten miles closer rather than 20? And no, sorry, I don’t believe a move of 20 miles is required to get out of your bad area - which is what you originally said, and now admit it’s because you want to be around the people that live 20 miles away.

I didn’t say you said your ex was a shit parent. I said others had said it which bolsters your opinions and justifications for the move.

Your other points about your child having a new brother or sister in the near future - I addressed in a previous post. His half-sibling is entitled to a relationship with him but not at the expense of a relationship with his dad.

I still think that the time to be considering this is when your son will be moving schools anyway. Otherwise like others have said it’s a lot of big changes in a short period of time.

I’m sorry if what I’m saying has irritated you - the reason I’m saying it is because I am a step mum whose step son was moved 30 miles away when he was about 10. We couldn’t move closer to him, we just had to accept it. At the start it was either a potential four hours in the car for me as DH doesn’t drive or longer on trains or buses. DSS is an adult now and luckily gets free train tickets through a family member but I can’t deny it has been hard.

No I don’t think this will work. You won’t be happy giving up all your weekends and your ds won’t be happy spending all his weekends in a different town, unable to see his friends, attend parties etc. So eventually Ds will want to stop visiting his dad and their relationship suffers.

I think you need to get a map out and plan a move mid way. Or easier for ds to navigate public transport in the future. Plan a move for when he starts secondary school.

That’s not really my point. Son is 9 now - what about when he’s 16? And he has his own social life near your home so doesn’t want to spend time with his dad because it’s a pain in the arse to get there and he has no friends there? You can’t force him to go. I mean, you can’t force a teen to spend time with you but it’s logical that the one you live with you have a better relationship with?

If he can't be arsed to spend 90 minutes on a train (on the occasions that ex or DP wouldn't give him a lift) to see his dad I would think something had gone wrong with the relationship. I used to spend 4 hours on a train to see my dad when I was a teen and our relationship has never been as strong as DS and ex

Why mention the school if it’s actually not an issue?

What I meant was that the school in itself wouldn't be a whole reason for moving. Like I've said, there are lots of small to medium issues that together mean I've now come to the conclusion that it's worth considering.

You don’t actually mention support networks at all as a reason for moving to where your DP used to live. A compromise would surely be that you move ten miles closer rather than 20? And no, sorry, I don’t believe a move of 20 miles is required to get out of your bad area - which is what you originally said, and now admit it’s because you want to be around the people that live 20 miles away.

I have mentioned support networks a couple of times now. Again, it's a combination of factors. Yes, I could move 10 miles and be in a nicer area but the costs wouldn't change significantly and the benefits don't then outweigh the negative of the upheaval (DS would still be 20 miles from his dad, would still have to change school and really would be starting from scratch with regards to friendships). The extra 10 miles means the added factor of an area I know and people I know. It's difficult to explain without saying exactly where I am but we are currently in between 2 large towns (so the outskirts of each which increase prices as people commute into the towns). Moving to where dp is from becomes more rural (although not inaccessible).

I didn’t say you said your ex was a shit parent. I said others had said it which bolsters your opinions and justifications for the move.

The fact that some people on the internet think my ex is a shit dad has no impact on my opinion or judgements whatsoever. I know he's a great dad and he's the only person who would be able to convince me otherwise which I sincerely doubt he ever will.

I still think that the time to be considering this is when your son will be moving schools anyway. Otherwise like others have said it’s a lot of big changes in a short period of time.

Agreed. And I've said that that's exactly what I'll do. He'll finish primary and THEN we'd move. I'm not changing schools halfway through the year and then moving him again 6-18 months later

I’m sorry if what I’m saying has irritated you - the reason I’m saying it is because I am a step mum whose step son was moved 30 miles away when he was about 10. We couldn’t move closer to him, we just had to accept it. At the start it was either a potential four hours in the car for me as DH doesn’t drive or longer on trains or buses. DSS is an adult now and luckily gets free train tickets through a family member but I can’t deny it has been hard.

You haven't irritated me. I am irritated that I can't give everyone all of the facts and pertinent information at once because I can't explain the last 15 years of my life (which would explain to a pp why I don't have a support system where I am currently, I don't want to go into that as it's too personal). I know it seems as though I'm drip feeding but people are bringing up things that I hadn't realised/thought about and so I'm realising as the discussion progresses that more info is needed.

I'm sorry things were tough with your dss. We obviously live in very different areas as the 30 miles here would not take 4 hours by car (unless there was an accident blocking the road or something). Ex regularly does the drive anyway as there is a 'family attraction' type place very close to where I'd like to move which he takes DS to a lot.

@thebakerwithboobs Er, yep, I think that's it. Such a witch aren't I?

That’s not really my point. Son is 9 now - what about when he’s 16? And he has his own social life near your home so doesn’t want to spend time with his dad because it’s a pain in the arse to get there and he has no friends there?

As the mother of six very lovely sons I can tell you that if he reaches 16 and doesn't always want to spend time with his Dad that's probably because he's 16.

@stillhavenoidea I would give your lad Childline's number and be done with it.

You cannot make these decisions unilaterally. You could not move your child’s school without his father’s agreement. If you don’t agree, it is off to family court.

It is really beneficial for children and teens if the parents live relatively close. As they become teenagers they will end up gravitating to the parent near their school, as that is where their friends will be.

It sounds like you have an amicable co-parenting relationship, so you need to discuss this with your ex and seek a compromise that works for all. Maybe you can move closer to this village, but not all the way. Maybe you can pay for taxi transport for your son to his father if you can’t drive (yes, it is expensive, but the cheaper rent should more than pay for it).

OP, I think it is good that you are seeking advice but you need to listen to it, and not only the minority who agree with you. This move would, in all probability, be bad for your son, would lead to a far less amicable relationship with your ex (unless agreed in advance) and could ultimately end up with lawyers involved.

Okay.... please take a moment.

This is firstly about your nuclear family - you, your son, your DP and the baby.

You are miserable where you are. You can't really afford where you are. Moving seems a sensible option.

Your DP has a longish commute. You are on a low income. Moving seems sensible.

Your son doesn't like his current school and you think he would be very happy to move.

You presently have a limited support network. You would benefit from this broadening when baby comes.

All this is solved by moving to where your DP works. Your all have friends there and all basically like it. One of you knows what it is like to live there... best areas etc.

Am I right?

Your concern is - you have a 50 / 50 custody arrangements that works well at present. Your son enjoys time with his grandparents and his Dad. There is some degree of flexibility that works well for everyone.

You are assuming that your ex and his grandparents do not want or need any disruption to this arrangement.

I say need deliberately - do you know how the grandparents feel about continuing to provide care to a teenager?

If I where you I'd try and be upfront. Talk to your family first. Quickly follow up with your ex.

You say your ex does one school run and people are suggesting that gives him a connection to school. If he is dashing off to work I honestly think it's a red herring. A drive by drop off does not relationship makes. Make sure you keep him up to date about school stuff so he can reassured you will at new school. Make an extra effort.

So for me the issue is the quality contact time. I'd actually be saying every other weekend - you really don't want to start off family life in a new area with son shipped off every weekend as he'll struggle to make friends, do sport etc. Some of the latter you could - with your DP's help - keep in your current area. Your son doesn't have to leave scouts or football or whatever he does but it will be harder but help in the 'being reasonable stakes' until he gets fed up himself.

I'm not really clear quite what your ex would be missing as I'm not sure whether your mean that the GP's do weekends as well. At present though he'd miss out on 10 evenings a month I think - in theory - as he already gets every other weekend. Could you offer one evening meal a week to reduce the amount of time your son loses with his Dad? GP's could come too if that's what is decided by them all.

I've deliberately worded it like that - keep in mind always that's it's about your son. Word it like that.

And no you don't have to 'put up with it' if he says no. You may need to be prepared to go to court. Family dynamics and circumstances change. Courts try and keep the status quo but.... the courts wouldn't exist if life meant that the status quo could be kept.

You are risking your present arrangement and some difficult conversations but you are not happy so is it time that nothing ventured nothing gained needs to your motto?

I don’t have much to offer in advice @stillhavenoidea as I’ve never been in your position but DH has, he was the child that was moved miles away from his Dad and School and had to compromise everything he had or knew for the sake of his Mum’s ‘happiness’. He inherited 4 step siblings almost overnight from being an only child and he had to make the travel to see his Dad (buses and trains) and as he was at a private school (which his dad pretty much destroyed himself to provide funds for) he was kept in that school so travelled miles to school every morning. Now, he wasn’t happy about it, still sees it as a selfish move on his Mum’s part because she never discussed it with him.

As an adult he said that if she had just sat down with him, told him what she was planning to do and why and actually allowed him to have a say on what he wanted at that time he wouldn’t feel quite so bad.

So I’d suggest, rather than defending yourself here, because it will be never ending trust me, go and have those conversations you’re afraid of. I understand your fears of exes form for manipulation of facts - but you’re able to see through them now. Prepare options as other PP have suggested, would it be feasible for the Ex to have DS every other weekend and have him stay over, for instance, rather than DS spending time with GP’s when the Ex is working?

As for whether the GP’s kick up a fuss about not seeing DS as much, well, they don’t really have a say. If the Ex has DS on the every other weekend basis they can see him then.

My DH had 50/50 between his Mum and Dad, he really didn’t enjoy it when his Mum moved so far away as he only saw it as him having to make the changes, he had to accommodate what she decided and it’s left a very sour note to their relationship even now.

I’m not saying you’re wrong for wanting more for yourself and I understand some of the positive reasons for your DS to move to this area. But the only way you’ll know if it’s a good thing to do is speak with your Ex and speak with your Son.