To get my 3 year old baptised in an attempt to get into a Catholic school

[nestisflown]

AIBU on two levels:

1. to want to baptise my 3 year old and start attending local mass weekly in order to get into one of the best schools in the area (and our closest school, although the next closest secular school is also an excellent one). Is this morally dubious? Or do lots of parents do the same?

1. to think that my transparent plan will work and help my child get a place even though we'll have been attending mass for less than a year by the time applications are made...and the applications want proof of "sustained weekly attendance". It doesnt define sustained though

My reasons for wanting my child to go to Catholic school are: (1.) It is a great school academically; (2) it's our closest school; (3) it's the only good faith school close to us (there's a CofE school but it's doesn't perform well academically), and as a non-Catholic but practising Christian, I'd quite like to see faith incorporated into my child's school day...even in a different denomination.

Has anyone done this? Has anyone succeeded?

At schools in our local area Looked after children are priority 1 regardless of denomination.

Not in our outstanding teaching school. All RC children of any description - even from another diocese - are placed before non-RC LAC.

Again @BertrandRussell , that just doesn't reflect the schools in my area. On the rare occasion I have attended church the other people there are from the local area which is clearly not a wealthy area.
I know that your data doesn't support this @JassyRadlett but I just want to show you that it isn't all bloody Ampleforth at Catholic schools where I live and where I grew up.

It is certainly not hypocritical to want the best for your child
Of course not, but teaching your child they lying and pretending to be what your not for the sole purpose of getting something perceived better is not what I call what is best for children, at least not by my principles (or that of most religions).

but I just want to show you that it isn't all bloody Ampleforth at Catholic schools where I live and where I grew up.

No idea what Ampleforth is, maybe because I’m an immigrant. I’ll google in a bit.

I’m not sure if you get that there is a difference between ‘having disproportionately fewer disadvantaged children and children with SEN’ and ‘rolling in cash and everyone drives Range Rovers’. Having fewer of the worst-off kids doesn’t make everyone else rich. It just means you have fewer of the worst off-kids, and they are instead disproportionately represented at non-selective schools.

But honestly. I get that distribution of the issue isn’t even and universal. Because that’s not how data works.

But it’s the fact. I know it’s not your immediate experience, or what feels like your immediate experience. That’s why we don’t and mustn’t make policy based on our own experiences, but on evidence.

Hmm, to be honest, I'd want my child to have the best. Baptising them though? Not so sure.

My dd attends the best local school which happens to be CofE despite her being Catholic.

There's feck all difference in the teachings and as it's a secondary school religious teaching covers all religions. I think the boarders may attend services or such, but dd is a day pupil so has no religious indoctrination whatsoever. Priority is given to Protestants, but as my DM works in the school, she got in that way.

Not suggesting it’s Ampjwforth, @bellinisurge, But oversubscribed faith schools statistically have a lower level of disadvantaged children than non faith ones. That’s just a fact.

swingofthings

How do you tell who’s lying and who isn’t? Any one of the families sending their child to an RC school could be lying about their religious beliefs.

I didn’t attend any masses or pretend I was observant, for avoidance of doubt. Suspect the church Round here is a bit more pragmatic and/or my zillions of very RC rellies have conferred some legitimacy on me.

No, schools have to abide by their published admissions criteria. In many areas admission to Catholic School is prioritied by a baptism certificate alone. No church attendance required!

Round here Catholic primary school has about 30% baptised kids (less actually in church on a sunday), generally undersubscribed, (unless you are unfortunate enough to be in a high sibling year). It's the most ethnically diverse school around. We also have many of the Muslim pupils (perhaps all? Nearest mosque is in the large town). Half the staff aren't Catholic. First communion in done in the parish, nothing to do with the school. We do our best to provide a Catholic education for all who want it.
All income levels represented. It's not the same as London and the South East.

I would not put my kids in a non Catholic school through choice. I thought about it for secondary, but a 5 minute conversation with the RE teacher showed they would be doing their best to convert my child away from religion. So it's home ed for us from year 7.

Generally speaking though, I think the days of state religious schools are numbered.
Most of the Catholics I know (across england) are home educating or thinking about it. Or closely watching the developments in education, with a view to the future education choices for their children.

“but a 5 minute conversation with the RE teacher showed they would be doing their best to convert my child away from religion”

Their faith must be pretty fragile if an RE lesson a week will dislodge it!

I thought about it for secondary, but a 5 minute conversation with the RE teacher showed they would be doing their best to convert my child away from religion. So it's home ed for us from year 7.

That should be challenged and reported.

a 5 minute conversation with the RE teacher showed they would be doing their best to convert my child away from religion.

What did the teacher actually say that led you to this conclusion?

Their faith must be pretty fragile if an RE lesson a week will dislodge it!

I have no idea how strong my children's faith is. It's their faith, they would probably have been fine.

But that conversation showed me that this was not the neutral secular environment it was claiming to be, but one that was actively hostile to what my children believe. I don't think it's fair to force my children into that environment for 6 hours a day.

But that conversation showed me that this was not the neutral secular environment it was claiming to be, but one that was actively hostile to what my children believe. I don't think it's fair to force my children into that environment for 6 hours a day.

Again, you should report this as it is contrary to legal principle. Particularly if it is pervasive throughout the school as you say.

What did the teacher actually say that led you to this conclusion?

Her attitude made it quite clear that she thought the idea of 'god' was ridiculous and a funny little quirk that old fashioned, intolerant, and stupid people had.

The resources she so proudly showed were role play exercises getting the children to give arguments for being non-religious, how to explain to their parents they no longer believed in God, and similar.

In itself there is nothing wrong with that, it's good to debate and work out those kinds of arguments. But there was NOTHING showing the other side of the arguments, explain to your parents you are a Christian, Argue why Islam might be right, etc.

(And DH is a CofE vicar and was standing there in his dog collar, so she had a clue about what we might be wanting to hear!)

“As part of the curriculum, we compare the great world religions- looking at the similarities and differences. We also talk about belief and non belief”

Her attitude made it quite clear that she thought the idea of 'god' was ridiculous and a funny little quirk that old fashioned, intolerant, and stupid people had.

Goodness me - this sounds quite incredible.

“Goodness me - this sounds quite incredible”

Certainly does! And what with a vicar standing there and all!

And completely contrary to the national curriculum!

As part of the curriculum, we compare the great world religions- looking at the similarities and differences. We also talk about belief and non belief”

That was what I was expecting.

But her attitude wasn't that far from the other school we looked at, (not chosen for other practical reasons) from what I hear from kids in state secondaries (friends kids, the ones in the youth group I help at church) anti-religion/christianity/Catholicism/God in general is the normal attitude.
(But I admit that's hearsay)
Maybe I just live in a weird place.

Certainly does! And what with a vicar standing there and all!

'Ihatesundays

Here’s a warning.

Someone argued to get their non-catholic child into my catholic secondary school.
Child fully embraced the catholic faith and converted and then became a nun and joined an enclosed order at 18.
Parents were devestated.

Careful what you get yourself into'

Ha! This made me laugh. One of my children went to a Catholic Primary after we moved house. It just happened to have a place as another child had moved. Baptised C of E but not practicing. Joined in juniors at the time they had just changed the order they did the sacraments and Holy Communion was later I think. Decided they fancied a bit of the time out of class the Catholic kids were getting and popped along with the other Catholic children when they went, no one noticed for ages as it was in school. Had great fun at the preparation classes, priest knew we were knew to the area and just presumed us Catholic.

It was only when I got the letter home to ask for details of our sponsors and the parent sessions that I realised what they had been doing.
The little sod by that point was insistent that they wanted to do and there was a party and I ended up with the priest wanting to speak to me because dc was insisting to the priest they wanted to do it.
I ended up going to the bloody parent classes to 'give DC a chance to decide' whether to convert or not and then finding a Catholic sponsor as all my catholic relatives were dead.

DC carried on until first confession in year 6 and then never went again little bugger.

@isittheholidaysyet Its par for the course in secular schools but they're going to have to face challenges to their beliefs eventually. Its up to parents to equip kids with the necessary arguments against an atheist world view.

Funnily enough Muslims and jews are allowed much more respect but Christians are fair game.

1. There is no such thing as a secular school in the U.K.
2. The National Curriculum for RE bears absolutely no relation to what you have described