To get my 3 year old baptised in an attempt to get into a Catholic school

[nestisflown]

AIBU on two levels:

1. to want to baptise my 3 year old and start attending local mass weekly in order to get into one of the best schools in the area (and our closest school, although the next closest secular school is also an excellent one). Is this morally dubious? Or do lots of parents do the same?

1. to think that my transparent plan will work and help my child get a place even though we'll have been attending mass for less than a year by the time applications are made...and the applications want proof of "sustained weekly attendance". It doesnt define sustained though

My reasons for wanting my child to go to Catholic school are: (1.) It is a great school academically; (2) it's our closest school; (3) it's the only good faith school close to us (there's a CofE school but it's doesn't perform well academically), and as a non-Catholic but practising Christian, I'd quite like to see faith incorporated into my child's school day...even in a different denomination.

Has anyone done this? Has anyone succeeded?

If that's the criteria then that's the criteria. Each applicant knows whether they played the criteria to their advantage. Up to you. 🤷‍♀️

Everyone who gets into an oversubscribed school has played the criteria to their advantage in some way. That’s how they get their kids in front of other children.

Who may be a more devout person.

But why should they get priority over others (who may live nearer, for example) when it comes to state school allocation?

Who may be a more devout person.

School places for faith schools are not based on depth of faith, but on objective and measurable criteria.

Meanwhile the devout person has almost certainly disadvantaged and displaced a poor child or a child with SEN. I have rather more sympathy for those children.

Again, I would prefer it if there were no faith schools . Cheating the system to try and get in any school is not something I support.

Cheating the system to try and get in any school is not something I support.

Again, I’m struggling to see how abiding by and meeting stated criteria is cheating the system?

She's not cheating the system.

How do you measure levels of 'devoutness' anyway?

What part of "I don't think we should have faith schools" didn't you get.
The idea that I am some sort of spokesperson fir Catholic education is laughable. But the op is talking about trying to game the criteria. That's not something I can support.

"to want to baptise my 3 year old and start attending local mass weekly in order to get into one of the best schools in the area (and our closest school, although the next closest secular school is also an excellent one). Is this morally dubious? Or do lots of parents do the same?"
Reads like trying to game the criteria to me.

But the op is talking about trying to game the criteria.

No, she’s trying to understand what they are and how to meet them. She’s not looking to fake attendance, or baptism. The criteria are what they are. They do not measure faith, or who the ‘real’ Catholic’s are.

Meeting the criteria is not gaming or cheating.

Then go ahead, op, it's fine. I really don't care.

Just so you know, baptism into the church at early infancy plus weekly attendance at Mass, plus having had all the sacraments apart from Holy Orders and last rites are generally an indication of devoutness. You might be a total git which taking the sacraments doesn't pick up but that's generally seen as the basic evidence of "devoutness" . I don't regularly attend church. What with being lapsed and all that. So I'm not "devout ". But I'm just telling you what they . In case you don't know. Don't shoot the messenger.

Here’s a warning.

Someone argued to get their non-catholic child into my catholic secondary school.
Child fully embraced the catholic faith and converted and then became a nun and joined an enclosed order at 18.
Parents were devestated.

Careful what you get yourself into

It's usually converts that are the most into it. In my experience.

"I disagree with lots of the Catholic beliefs and practises" - then no. If you're a believing Christian, how on earth do you think being so dishonest is ok? Just send your child to the next-nearest school, the secular one and have faith formation at home. If it's 'excellent' then that should be absolutely fine

She’s not looking to fake attendance, or baptism.

If she went ahead with this plan, she would be. She stated upthread (in response to my first post, probably somewhere on the first page) that she didn't consider infant baptism to be a valid baptism. The reason she's willing to get her child baptised as a Catholic is that she doesn't think they'll really be baptised.

I’m aware of that, bellini. And that’s precisely where a system that relies on trying to measure the spiritual using objective measures will always fall down. And why devoutness cannot, as well as should not, be used as a test to access a public service.

I agree with you, I think. If Catholics want Catholic schools to be for ‘true’ Catholics they should pay for them themselves and admit and exclude anyone they like.

As long as it is in the public sector it will be based on worldly criteria, and people trying to access that service will seek to meet those criteria. That’s the trade off the church makes when it gets the state to fund a service it wants to provide.

An interesting development in my area is that there has been a massive influx of Catholic families from overseas who have come to work in the large hospital in the town.

They’ve clocked up way more church attendances than the home-grown Catholics and are now pushing them out of the way for places in the outstanding RC secondary school.

I guess they’re just more devout?

Often the way, @FamilyOfAliens . My Mum was an Irish immigrant. My classmates were from the same background or Italian or Polish. I think she took comfort in the familiar in a weird foreign country.

Why are people insisting that catholic schools reject/do not have pupils with SEN,disabilities or are from deprived backgrounds?

Why are people insisting that catholic schools reject/do not have pupils with SEN,disabilities or are from deprived backgrounds?

No one is saying either of those things.

What is established through the data is that schools that practice selection of any kind are also socially selective. Faith schools that are oversubscribed and therefore select on religious observance have fewer poor children and fewer children with SEN than is the average for their local communities, and overall below the national average. The act of selection (faith, academic, talent) results in a disproportionately advantaged pupil population.

I have cited the Educational Policy Institute’s report on Faith schools, pupil performance and social selection a number of times on this thread; I don’t mind doing so again in the hopes that someone actually looks at the figures.

I would say most of the children at my DD's old primary were from a mix of economic backgrounds although most were from poorer families. High rate of pupil premium compared to the rest of the area. I knew no one in her class from what would be described as a wealthy advantaged background.
As I've said before, there are plenty of Catholic primaries and a couple of Catholic secondaries in my area because there was a lot of Irish/Polish/Italian immigration here as well as it being NW England which has a significant proportion of Catholics anyway.
I just don't recognise the privileged exclusive monied picture you are painting. Maybe it's a North/South thing.

I just don't recognise the privileged exclusive monied picture you are painting.

I’m not painting a picture of anything. I’m recounting what the data says without embellishments like ‘monied’ or ‘exclusive’.

The point of data is that it means none of us needs to try to extrapolate our own personal experiences to apply more widely.

Another thing the local outstanding RC secondary does is give priority number 1 to RC Looked After Children, but priority number 6 to non-RC Looked After Children, which seems very un-Christian to me.

So even Looked After Children, who are recognised to be the most vulnerable group, are divided by faith.

There are always fewer children from disadvantaged groups at a school which requires parents to jump through hoops to gain admission. Whatever the hoops are. That is an incontrovertible fact.