To get my 3 year old baptised in an attempt to get into a Catholic school

[nestisflown]

AIBU on two levels:

1. to want to baptise my 3 year old and start attending local mass weekly in order to get into one of the best schools in the area (and our closest school, although the next closest secular school is also an excellent one). Is this morally dubious? Or do lots of parents do the same?

1. to think that my transparent plan will work and help my child get a place even though we'll have been attending mass for less than a year by the time applications are made...and the applications want proof of "sustained weekly attendance". It doesnt define sustained though

My reasons for wanting my child to go to Catholic school are: (1.) It is a great school academically; (2) it's our closest school; (3) it's the only good faith school close to us (there's a CofE school but it's doesn't perform well academically), and as a non-Catholic but practising Christian, I'd quite like to see faith incorporated into my child's school day...even in a different denomination.

Has anyone done this? Has anyone succeeded?

*One of the things I like about Mumsnet and people like Lawrie! Editing on phone, poorly.

Jassey- the ECHR says no one shall be denied the right to an eduction. Also look at art 9. In terms of discrimination under art 14, it doesn't apply as there are other schools the OP can apply too.

Lots of people do it. Normally at a much younger age. One school I applied for with my child pompously asked for a baptism certificate which I had as both of my children are christened as are my whole family. I didn't like the attitude of that school though and chose another. I selected a non faith school with an outstanding Ofsted report, non faith and it was truly awful in the way it did not encourage kindness and respect for other children. There was no moral under tone. We removed our child and instead sent him to a much further away faith school. Tge difference was measurable. Having an element of religious reflection daily, not in terms of stories, but in terms of meanings and their practical use in every day life, and the lovely vicar who came in and regularly gave the kids support when they were upset made an enormous difference to my child and was really needed. It was a good thing. For me, for this reason i have seen how a low level of faith in school is important. Just for its supportive role and level of pastoral care. You can get this in other schools.
Its is worth considering the best schools on paper arent always the best schools for your child.
A lesser school on paper was the perfect school for us. It was also much further away. The level and type of religious Input at school us also important. If you don't have any real faith in life IMO it doesnt quite fit to send a child into that environment, however if you do, even a bit and it's something you want your child to welcome why not try.

on why social and religious segregation of children may or may not be desirable for social cohesion

Well I grew up in Northern Ireland, so I have very strong views on this, coloured by that experience.

It’s been very detrimental for social cohesion there. But I accept it’s a unique situation which is more about cultural identity than religion anyway.

TeamMiranda here.

deepflatflyer no clearly not! Sorry I didnt realise it was the law on Mumsnet that you have to trawl through 20 pages of a thread before you could comment. I'll just get back in my box!

though I’m Team Nick

Everyone always is.

storms off in huff

Yes my son was successful getting the children baptised and going to Church once a week with his 4 children and the school is wonderful the children love it.

I do think Miranda is exceptionally well drawn.

Though my next favs are Tim and Ginty.

Sorry not sorry

It is certainly not hypocritical to want the best for your child.

the ECHR says no one shall be denied the right to an eduction. Also look at art 9. In terms of discrimination under art 14, it doesn't apply as there are other schools the OP can apply too.

Agreed.

It wasn’t raised in relation to OP, rather a claim that it enshrines a right to be educated within your own faith.

It does not say that children have the right to be educated within their faiths. Similarly the right to an education is not absolute.

storms off in huff

😂

My best mate is diehard Team Lawrie and one of the best people I know if that helps.

Obviously totally misguided on this point but otherwise sound.

@Grobagsforever I don't think I said Christian's should get a better education at all 🤨 all schools should be of a good standard, however I do think faith schools should be prioritised for children who are practicing the faith of the school 🤷‍♀️ and if the OP is a practicing Christian of any sort then 🤷‍♀️

What protects them is- everyone has a right to their opinion! You were jus coming across as rude and closed minded. You aren't having an adult conversation when calling people names.
Open minded is kinda what you need to be on here otherwise you get worked up over someone else's opinion-someone you don't even know!

My DS isn't baptised, and goes to the local Catholic school simply because it's the nearest school. Next nearest one is in next town about 4 miles away.
DS's school certainly isn't high achieving, apart from in Sport (!) and if there was a choice of 2 nearby schools, I'd have definitely chosen the non religious one because I can't stand any Religion being taught as if it's Fact.

Honestly, if you're not naturally inclined towards the Catholic religion, I'd give it a miss. You wouldn't be doing your child any favours.

I disagree with lots of the Catholic beliefs and practises

I honestly do not understand why you would like your DC to go to a Catholic school then.
A good Ofsted report and good results don't make up for the fact that you disagree with their beliefs and practises. The school's whole ethos is based on the teachings of the Catholic Church.

I’m going to assume this thread went to shit after I went to work.

I’m on Bertrand’s side. Completely agree with your post at 17:33.

The school's whole ethos is based on the teachings of the Catholic Church.

I’ve never worked out what this actually means. Obviously RE and elements of PSHE will incorporate the teachings of the Catholic Church (although in RE you are meant to learn about all religions, not just your own).

But how do the teachings of the Catholic Church shape the maths curriculum, or geography, or PE? How would a lesson in those subjects look any different from one in a non-denominational school?

I disagree with lots of the Catholic beliefs and practises

I honestly do not understand why you would like your DC to go to a Catholic school then.

But lots of practicing catholics also disagree with some catholic beliefs and practices.

But lots of practicing catholics also disagree with some catholic beliefs and practices.

Yes but adults who disagree with some parts of their religion can avoid or ignore them fairly easily because they spend time with people with a variety of different views, not just with Catholics.

In a Catholic school there’s no avoiding it - even the bits you don’t agree with. And that’s for years!

In a Catholic school there’s no avoiding it - even the bits you don’t agree with

I don’t agree with this. There’s wider family, friends, acquaintances. It’s not catholic boarding school shes thinking of.

And in my experience of catholic school, catholic doctrine made little impact outside of RE and religious observance (which was limited enough).

My daughter went to a Catholic Primary, and now goes to a Catholic High School.

For starters, they can’t have done a great job in “indoctrinating” her, as she no longer believes in god (her choice)
At primary they learned about other religions in depth .. made lamps and Diwali, and Jewish Prayer Scrolls, and had a special lunch at Eid
Any sort of homophobia or transphobia is not tolerated as swiftly dealt with.. the Catholic Cathedral in Salford has just had an LGBTQ+ (and friends) Special Service .... not that the need a special service as everyone is welcome (if you listen to what Pope Francis says, it’s really important to him)
Sex education does not only take place in science - they talk about sex, contraception, STDs (and the lesson isn’t just to abstain .. the staff know that teenagers are teenagers)
Creationism isn’t taught in Science, evolution is.
Yes, they have RE, but, it’s not just being drilled in the bible, at the moment it’s a very interesting discussion on the nature of Evil
I love the ethos of forgiveness in the school .. we all make mistakes, and we will be forgiven.
There are gay teachers, and gay kids ... and all is good

Not sure what people think goes on in Catholic Schools. It’s probably like most other schools, but with the occasional prayer thrown in.

Anyway, I go to church every Sunday ... plenty of kids coming for baptism, that you never see ever again, until the primary school starts

Frankly anyone who's seen the film "Spotlight" should be embarrassed to be Catholic. Just my tuppenceworth.

Abuse of children isn't confined to one religious group. Nor is covering it up.

...it’s a bit like saying “anyone who’s watched ‘Saville’ should be ashamed to work for the BBC (or the NHS for that matter). “Anymore who’s watched “three girls” should be ashamed to work for Rochdale Council”.

Abuses, and the subsequent cover up, is not confined to one religion, or one organisation ... you get awful people (unfortunately) in all sorts of places.