To get my 3 year old baptised in an attempt to get into a Catholic school

[nestisflown]

AIBU on two levels:

1. to want to baptise my 3 year old and start attending local mass weekly in order to get into one of the best schools in the area (and our closest school, although the next closest secular school is also an excellent one). Is this morally dubious? Or do lots of parents do the same?

1. to think that my transparent plan will work and help my child get a place even though we'll have been attending mass for less than a year by the time applications are made...and the applications want proof of "sustained weekly attendance". It doesnt define sustained though

My reasons for wanting my child to go to Catholic school are: (1.) It is a great school academically; (2) it's our closest school; (3) it's the only good faith school close to us (there's a CofE school but it's doesn't perform well academically), and as a non-Catholic but practising Christian, I'd quite like to see faith incorporated into my child's school day...even in a different denomination.

Has anyone done this? Has anyone succeeded?

let the little children come to me . The other way sounds wrong blush

Honestly, I think someone who would refer to Jesus as you did here shouldn’t be sending their child to a faith school of any description. You aren’t religious. Those schools exist so that parents can continue to educate their children within religious traditions, while other parents - like you - don’t. It is to maintain plurality within a tolerant system, not to discriminate against your precious DC. You are disrespectful towards that faith so you should stop being a liar and a hypocrite and find another school where the ethos matches your own.

Loads do it. You've got to be in it to win it.

With regards to the private schools in previous comment- not all are nurturing. Some are hothouses all about getting their pupils into the top schools at the next stage as that is what will attract the next batch of parents.

This differs from a private school, where, as a paying customer your child will be nurtured even if they aren't the brightest.

Do you have any experience of the independent sector? Why do you think many independent schools have entrance exams/assessments, interviews for kids, family interviews ... ? Sure, not all independent schools are academically very selective, some are good with SEN, some will just take the money of anyone willing to pay. They're not all a homogenous group, but it's still very naive to suggest that independent schools, as a sweeping generalisation, nurture not very academic children.

Yes @pikapikachu I'm generalising but I've got three children who've all attended different state and private schools over the last 14 years so I've got a lot of experience of different schooling models.

The OP thinks that a catholic primary school is like a prep school and it just isn't. If you're going to choose a private school you can get one that suits your individual dc.

@nestisflown - why don't you go down the route of applying for a bursary in a private school?

@BogglesGoggles What's the difference? Is it the teaching or standards? Or is it snubbery?

It is to maintain plurality within a tolerant system, not to discriminate against your precious DC.

Please explain how it doesn't discriminate.

Those schools exist so that parents can continue to educate their children within religious traditions,

If parents want to educate their children within religious traditions they should pay for it themselves, not expect the state to do so.

it's still very naive to suggest that independent schools, as a sweeping generalisation, nurture not very academic children.

The selective ones won't. But in that case, the child won't be accepted in the first place. I do have first hand experience of 3 independent schools.

The point I am making is that as a paying customer you can choose exactly what you think your child needs. Whereas the OP thinks her local catholic school will automatically provide all kids with the same opportunities and I think that is naive.

Personally, I have a child who has done very well in a big community primary school though so I'm not sure why people want to keep their kids out of them.

SoupDragon

I didn’t say it didn’t discriminate. I said that’s not the aim. Sometimes discrimination is exactly what we need to achieve an aim, in this case, the religious consensus of this country, which is one of tolerance and the ability to practise your faith, including with regards to the education of your children.

I think it's a horrible thing to do. You could be preventing children who are catholic from getting a place.

How are people who don't believe in sending non-Catholic's to a Catholic school "supporting the system" and therefore "hypocritical"?

These are state funded schools using public funds to educate children. They are using public funds to explicitly prioritise children of a certain faith and implicitly admit fewer children who are poor or have SEN than their surrounding catchments.

If you think that religious discrimination against four year olds in access to public services is a good idea, and you’re fine with social and religious segregation of children then yes, I think if you start pontificating about what’s moral and what’s not then you are a hypocrite.

I didn’t say it didn’t discriminate. I said that’s not the aim. Sometimes discrimination is exactly what we need to achieve an aim, in this case, the religious consensus of this country, which is one of tolerance and the ability to practise your faith, including with regards to the education of your children.

But that’s not what faith schools do. They are largely a historical relic that serve two sects of Christians, not all people of faith, out of all proportion to the number of practising Christians in the country.

They are using public funds to explicitly prioritise children of a certain faith and implicitly admit fewer children who are poor or have SEN than their surrounding catchments.

This has been the opposite of my experience. What is your source that Catholic schools admit fewer poor pupils and pupils with SEN?

If they were open to everyone, they would not get such good results. They get good results because they manage out anyone who will make their results look bad.

To be entirely fair to them Moomin it’s not just because they manage them out.

It’s also because the selection criteria exclude a lot of those kids in the first place.

@rainydays5 the difference is that the private sector doesn’t discriminate. Everyone has the same rules. If doesn’t matter where you live, what religion you follow, what race you are etc. They don’t refuse you a place for being a Protestant. Or put locals at the top of the list. So long as you follow their admissions procedures (so either be first in line or top performing on entrance exams) they’ll let you in. You don’t have to jump through hoops or lie about your faith.

the ability to practise your faith, including with regards to the education of your children.

There’s no reason why your child’s state education should be mixed up with your faith. It’s not the norm in most countries.

You are perfectly able to practice your faith at home and within your church community without it having to be a defining feature of their education.

Yes @JassyRadlett true enough.

@Fink while you are right when talking about some individual schools the private sector in general is known for being more inclusive of sen. There are a lot of private schools which are highly specialised and cater mostly it exclusively to SEN. With regards to children who are merely not academic I would say the generalisation holds true. There are only a few schools the exclusively cater to bright children. The independent sector extents well beyond the public school stereotype.

We are practicing RC, cradle catholics if you like.

My children's school is fab, they've learnt about every religion and still are, visits to other places of worship etc. Not all schools are like that. We have just been through FHC and it was two hour session after mass on Sunday for 24 weeks.

I think are probably too late anyway, the SAF has to be signed by the PP and you're going to struggle to get through baptism prep and start attending mass before it's due in. There will be be plenty ahead of you in terms of commitment anyway.

I would look very carefully at the admission criteria. It is usually

LAC and previously LAC any denomination
Baptised under 6 months and regular (3xmonth+ mass attendance) with two confirmed practising catholics and then on a sliding scale downwards

This has been the opposite of my experience. What is your source that Catholic schools admit fewer poor pupils and pupils with SEN?

The Education Policy Institute report on faith schools and social segregation among other sources. There is plenty of data out there so none of us need to rely on anecdote or personal experience.

@DioneTheDiabolist
@LaurieMarlow

I don't need to google how to set up a free school because I was part of setting one up via a multi academy trust that I worked for. It took years to gain approval from Whitehall, the city council, secure premises, renovate the premises, to recruit and train staff and to recruit pupils. Not to mention details like setting up catering. It was an epic undertaking for a large education organisation with professionals working on it full time. It cost millions.

So please don't spout off about how parents who wish to pass comment on schools should simply set up a free school. You really, really don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Regardless of the morality of lying to the church and school, I'm sure the child has to have at least one Catholic parent in order to be baptised.

So please don't spout off about how parents who wish to pass comment on schools should simply set up a free school. You really, really don't have a clue what you're talking about.

I’m totally with you on this one to be clear.

Haha @seaweedandmarchingbands arent you the poster that somehow found my posts offensive to Catholics to the extent of reporting the thread? 😂 if you get offended by this you might be better off avoiding modern society altogether?

I've clearly said how I believe in the basic ethos of Christianity and therefore by association, Catholicism, have only ever been educated in Catholic schools, and want my child to have a similar faith based education. Yet somehow you feel you know me well enough to tell me I'm not religious and I'm disrespectful to the faith. You sound very emotionally invested in this - to the point of getting wound up by a stranger on the internet's posts and casting personal attacks and judgement. All while endorsing a discriminatory school system that goes against Christian principles. And that's meant to be the example you're setting off Christianity?.... people in glass houses and all that...

@LaurieMarlow I thought you would be