To get my 3 year old baptised in an attempt to get into a Catholic school

[nestisflown]

AIBU on two levels:

1. to want to baptise my 3 year old and start attending local mass weekly in order to get into one of the best schools in the area (and our closest school, although the next closest secular school is also an excellent one). Is this morally dubious? Or do lots of parents do the same?

1. to think that my transparent plan will work and help my child get a place even though we'll have been attending mass for less than a year by the time applications are made...and the applications want proof of "sustained weekly attendance". It doesnt define sustained though

My reasons for wanting my child to go to Catholic school are: (1.) It is a great school academically; (2) it's our closest school; (3) it's the only good faith school close to us (there's a CofE school but it's doesn't perform well academically), and as a non-Catholic but practising Christian, I'd quite like to see faith incorporated into my child's school day...even in a different denomination.

Has anyone done this? Has anyone succeeded?

It’s worth looking into, plenty of people at my DC’s school are lip service Catholics.

Check if there is a parish with a new priest nearby (newsletters are often online) or if you have a parish with a city, huge, transient population or several churches to avoid the Bridget-who-does-the-flowers issue. You can always say you are returning to the Faith after “resting” as you realise how important it is to you, especially in guiding your child.

Check the admissions guidelines carefully to see if you are in with a chance, if it is before 6 months, check the actual numbers of children admitted in the last 5 years in each category. If it’s a heavily oversubscribed school with only the top 1 or 2 categories you might not get in but if it’s not then you may.

Also be aware that the upswing of highly motivated parents (ie people like you, who can be bothered to check things like admissions criteria and do something about them) often impacts how successful a school is, rather than how good the teaching is. My own DC’s school gets tremendously good SATs but from Y4/5 a huge chunk of children are tutored heavily because they have very invested parents and we are in Bucks which is a Grammar County.

It’s competitive from the start in some Catholic (and Cof E too I believe) schools hence sometimes the excellent reputations.

Also bear in mind it is very difficult to recruit senior staff as head teachers need to be Catholic. We had an issue when our HT was unwell and there was a complete shortage of qualified candidates - I can’t see the Church being able to support schools the way they used to tbh.

Check too, things like voluntary contributions to the School/Church itself and uniform costs. Certainly our school tries to do a bit of backdoor selection that way and although one is voluntary, there are lots of charitable collections throughout the year for Catholic charities you might not want to support either.

As an aside, the whole experience has put my children off Mass entirely, which is something of a shame but there we go.

Hope that helps a bit.

I don’t know anyone who emerged from a Catholic education as a fervent Catholic. If anything it inoculates you against religious fervour. A+ reason to send your kids there IMO

@LaurieMarlow Cross posted... Yes the system is a disaster! For this and many more reasons. I'm a deputy head in a large (secular) secondary and dp is a primary teacher so having seen it from the schools' side for years we are now shuddering already at the prospect of the parent POV.

I would send her to the best school I could while sticking to my principles (so no religious hypocrisy) and continue to give her support and fun learning experiences at home.

My decision would be different.

My priority would be my child’s educational needs.

I would have no qualms at all about gaming a system I don’t respect and that actively discriminates.

It would be school dependent, but the catholic education in and of itself wouldn’t bother me, I had one myself.

We all have different priorities and make different decisions.

Just checked and Free Schools still exist.
So theres nothing stopping a group of atheists or humanists getting their act together and opening their own school, just as faiths have done.

Who is "smug"? I believe I am very lucky and I appreciate what I have, (we are middle-class) have faith in God and I'm very proud of that! I will pass that faith onto my kids and I hope they do with their kids if they choose to do so. Thankfully they are in a catholic school that has a fantastic support network. My believe is because of our faith and beliefs. Morally it is wrong to lie and cheat ppl to better yourself-this is what this person is doing. Valuing what you have- there are, I'm sure, better schools out there than just catholic schools.

I don't believe in using discrimination as a tool when it comes to getting what you want. There needs to be a line drawn. When does it stop? It's not my fault that my children are in a good school because they are faithful. There are schools that aren't faithful-weather they are good or not depends on the systems/funding in that school.

So theres nothing stopping a group of atheists or humanists getting their act together and opening their own school, just as faiths have done.

Oh yes, nothing at all expect time, resources, funding, energy, expertise, knowledge, experience.

Most people do not have the wherewithal to set up a school, quit the disingenuousness.

Atheists are not an organised, well funded groups with a clear mission, like the churches.

And churches have hundreds of years of experience on them.

I don't believe in using discrimination as a tool when it comes to getting what you want

But that’s exactly what the system is doing for you

Also I don't think faith schools were started by groups of motivated parents! They are part of the establishment. Nothing like a free school.

@LaurieMarlow I absolutely understand your position too. And if no good schools other than faith, and no homeschool option, I could easily be where you are. I'm just speaking for my family.

I would vote for a French style approach, with total separation of religion from state and all schools were legally required to be secular. With freedom of religion so that families can follow whatever belief system they want outside of school and work time.

How are people who don't believe in sending non-Catholic's to a Catholic school "supporting the system" and therefore "hypocritical"?

There's many people on here saying that it's not fair that more local people converting to Catholicism for school entry, takes a school place from genuine Catholics further out. But I've said it before, why should a state school be allowed to select entry based on faith? If the Catholic and other religious schools want to be able to keep local children out, they should turn private rather than take money we've all paid into the system for the benefit of everyone. I can't see how people defending the system can turn a blind eye to such discrimination. Cachment areas aren't much better....favour those who are financially able to move closer to the best schools. The system is deeply, deeply flawed...And in my view, I'm not the a hypocrite for attempting to follow school entry requirements in order to get my child into a great academic school. Those discriminatory entry requirements shouldn't exist in a state school in the first place. It was Jesus himself who said "let the little children come onto me"...he didn't add...only if they are Catholic/ CofE etc. The best state schools should be open to everyone regardless of religious or economic background.

I’m in the south east but grew up in the midlands and I went to catholic schools my whole childhood, there were always non catholic’s there, they have to take some non catholics, so if you are within catchment and the next choice school is also good I would apply and just cross your fingers, no need to join a religion you don’t believe in.

I absolutely understand your position too. And if no good schools other than faith, and no homeschool option, I could easily be where you are. I'm just speaking for my family.

Sure. And to be clear I'm not in that position. I would have been if we'd stayed in the UK. Thankfully we didn't and we have a great, non religious option available to us.

Gennz18 DH and I both went to Catholic schools and are still Catholic now. We're youngish though so didn't experience too much fire and brimstone stuff.

So theres nothing stopping a group of atheists or humanists getting their act together and opening their own school, just as faiths have done
There are many educate together schools popping up all over Ireland.
I am not sure about all schools but none of the catholic schools my DC nieces nephews friends DC discriminate against different religions.
During holy communion or confirmation practise they opt out, then help with the party preparations all the DC are invited to dress up. One Muslim girl wore white silk dress to the communion party, she looked beautiful her parents smiling no one batted an eye.

My DD secondary school is a religious school. I didn’t start attending church so she’s get a place because that’s not me I’m not religious and I’m not going to pretend so she got a place. They offer a very small amount to community and we were lucky to get a place you can always appeal if you don’t get the outcome you wanted.

Not disingenuous. Free schools have been opened. However it's easier to whine on the internet and blame organisations that put their money and time where their mouth is.

There are many educate together schools popping up all over Ireland.

And this is the option that we have, which is great.

But ET has taken a long time to get off the ground. The origins of the movement come from the 1970s and they're still only a tiny proportion of Irish schools. They are hugely over subscribed.

Not disingenuous. Free schools have been opened. However it's easier to whine on the internet and blame organisations that put their money and time where their mouth is.

It's totally disingenous.

Very few people have the skills and resources to open a school as you well know.

*let the little children come to me . The other way sounds wrong

I'm not sure catholic schools are part of the establishment in the england. The established church is the church of england. In some area the catholic church made building schools a priority and built them before churches.

@Camomila I’m still culturally Catholic I guess but I don’t believe in or abide by any of the core doctrine - transubstantiation, the virgin birth, no contraception, anti-abortion etc. I don’t know anyone who could go along with that. I’m in my 30s.

I don’t believe in or abide by any of the core doctrine - transubstantiation, the virgin birth, no contraception, anti-abortion etc.

I’d be interested to know how many currently practising catholics believe in all this.

Whats the difference between free schools and academys? Whenever I hear about academies it's usually negative things being said.

If you have the will, you can do it. Free schools in England, ET in Ireland. But if you cant be arsed, you're just whining that other people can.