To get my 3 year old baptised in an attempt to get into a Catholic school

[nestisflown]

AIBU on two levels:

1. to want to baptise my 3 year old and start attending local mass weekly in order to get into one of the best schools in the area (and our closest school, although the next closest secular school is also an excellent one). Is this morally dubious? Or do lots of parents do the same?

1. to think that my transparent plan will work and help my child get a place even though we'll have been attending mass for less than a year by the time applications are made...and the applications want proof of "sustained weekly attendance". It doesnt define sustained though

My reasons for wanting my child to go to Catholic school are: (1.) It is a great school academically; (2) it's our closest school; (3) it's the only good faith school close to us (there's a CofE school but it's doesn't perform well academically), and as a non-Catholic but practising Christian, I'd quite like to see faith incorporated into my child's school day...even in a different denomination.

Has anyone done this? Has anyone succeeded?

So if you believe it's thoroughly immoral, why would you want to be a part of it?!

I don’t, yet find myself in it anyway, as I said.

My point is that calling someone’s behaviour ‘immoral’ when supporting the system which is itself is fundamentally immoral and discriminatory is very hypocritical.

FWIW, I am a practising Christian, one of my dc is at a private faith secondary (outside the UK) which charges fees by parental income and is otherwise church-funded (possibly with state subsidies, I believe), which has no formal criteria wrt parental faith and picks children on their fit to the school ethos but expects attendance at services etc once the child is in. We are very pleased as a family to have had the option to send this particular dc to this particular school, but we firmly believe that the state system, as in the system that provides the default choices, should be secular (as it is in this country). So I do understand why, in the UK, some parents may feel the need to get their elbows out in this regard, but I can't help finding the particular way in which this OP seems to want to go about it, and the contempt for the belief system she is planning to take advantage of, rather objectionable.

but I can't help finding the particular way in which this OP seems to want to go about it and the contempt for the belief system she is planning to take advantage of, rather objectionable.

My personal view is that she’s just more honest and openly pragmatic about it than most.

I think the OP has gone 🤷🏻‍♀️

"My point is that calling someone’s behaviour ‘immoral’ when supporting the system which is itself is fundamentally immoral and discriminatory is very hypocritical."

How are people who don't believe in sending non-Catholic's to a Catholic school "supporting the system" and therefore "hypocritical"?

YABU. The whole thing is so hypocritical. Although @BogglesGoggles first post absolutely nails it.

Our nearest primary is Catholic and if dd is allocated there we will appeal or homeschool rather than send her somewhere that will "teach" her a load of damaging nonsense.

Our nearest primary is Catholic and if dd is allocated there we will appeal or homeschool rather than send her somewhere that will "teach" her a load of damaging nonsense.

But homeschooling isn’t an option for everyone. Surely that’s obvious?

I’m a lapsed Catholic who went through the Catholic school system and my kids will be too, as if next year.

OP is no more hypocritical than me or pretty much anyone else I know. None of us are devou it even believe in the fundamental doctrine of the Church - because how could you - all of us are sending our kids to these schools because they’re better than our local alternative.

If the OP wants to sit through interminable masses to access this state-funded education, good luck to her.

Yes! There are alot of other schools. The issue is self intitled people not getting what they want.
What about private schools? Should they bring on any child because the parent wants them to go? They aren't going to pay the bills but it's a good school so their child should have a right to attend.

You won't be alone - loads of people in our town go to church for 3 years to gain access to one of the best state schools in the country - apparently. And then they bleat on about the school giving good moral standards - the school know it's happening of course they do - but they get parents to jump through hoops because those are the parents who are going to most supportive of the school.
Abolish all faith schools - I think they are the outrage!

@Pointof0return I would check out the school first. I went to a catholic school for a while (it was overseas though so maybe things are different here). My experience was the complete opposite. While the school was hot on ‘catholic’ principles of charity, empathy, compassion etc they didn’t teach us any bullshit. Our RE lessons we about analysis of religious texts which was a combination of breaking down the symbolism, allegory etc (so a lot of parables for example are heavily symbolic as is the Old Testament, we were encouraged to analyse the meaning of symbols and themes within the text and the general teachings of the church) and historic contextualisation (for example we were taught that Jesus was more likely to be the product of rape or adultery than immaculate conception). We also had a very very comprehensive sex Ed program. While I disagree with state funded religious education and any school (whether state or private) which discriminated against children, I know from experience that catholic schools don’t necessarily teach children outdated rubbish.

@LaurieMarlow Of course it's not an option for everyone. that part of my comment was specifically about our dd and our situation.

@rainydays5 there is a distinction between expecting everyone to pay their way and excluding on the basis of religion (or postcode for that matter). As much as people love to go on about how exclusive private schools are they really aren’t. I’ve never done across a few charging school that cares where you live or what faith you practice.

I think a lottery system would probably be fairest tbh. Super impractical for primary schools but for secondaries in medium/big towns where most DC already get buses it might work.

As a parent you want the best for your child and your reasons are valid. As you have mentioned you want your child to have the religious input from their education then do it. Bear in mind that you should continue to go to mass once the children are in the school, and get involved in other aspects of the school where possible such as helping the PTA

Yes! There are alot of other schools. The issue is self intitled people not getting what they want.

For a non-religious family, of middle to low income, looking for high quality education, the pool can be extremely small.

The bigger issue is ppl who the system favours; refusing to see this, sitting smugly back and calling those disadvantaged by the system ‘immoral’ and ‘entitled’ for wanting the same choice that they have.

@BogglesGoggles Your schooling sounds great! Theology and the analysis of texts and contexts that you describe is totally fascinating and so useful. I went to a Methodist primary school (just 1 school in my village and that was it) and I left with detailed knowledge of the Bible which has been so useful in studying literature and understanding allegories and art.

And of course you are right we will carefully check out all the local primaries. (Dd only 1 so have a while.)
The fact is she will most likely end up at CoE even if we don't get the Catholic one. As an atheist I just find CoE more palatable than Catholic doctrine.

Of course it's not an option for everyone. that part of my comment was specifically about our dd and our situation.

So maybe a little less throwing around of the word ‘hypocritical’ in relation to people who don’t have the advantages you have but want their child to have access to a good education.

Do you still have Free School projects in England?

@LaurieMarlow I wasn't really throwing it around, I really meant it

You have made me think though.. if homeschooling was not an option and the only good school anywhere nearby was Catholic, what would I do then?

I think people should accept that Catholic schools teach Catholicism. They don’t just teach bible study. They interpret the Bible through the lens of Catholic teaching, and if you don’t like it, you shouldn’t educate your child there. I accept that not everyone agrees that faith schools should be a thing, but they are, and they are set up so that the children emerge with the teachings of that faith as the backbone of their future lives. I really, really cannot see why you would do that to your child, or disrespect the beliefs of the other parents, children and staff, if you genuinely didn’t want your child to grow up in that faith. What a perverse decision.

if homeschooling was not an option and the only good school anywhere nearby was Catholic, what would I do then?

Well exactly.

Which is why the system is such a total disaster.

Catholic schools are by their nature diverse aren’t they? I mean it’s not the “Indigenous” religion. My Catholic was heavily Irish which would now also include polish as well as black (Caribbean/ African background) and lots of Indian and Pakistani families who preferred their children to have a religious education

I didn’t meet anyone who was totally English (back to grandparents) until I went to university

Because of what the last poster @seaweedandmarchingbands has just summed up brilliantly... @LaurieMarlow

I would send her to the best school I could while sticking to my principles (so no religious hypocrisy) and continue to give her support and fun learning experiences at home.

I'm an atheist... But isn't "do not lie" one of the ten commandments? This course of action isn't very Christian is it?