To get my 3 year old baptised in an attempt to get into a Catholic school

[nestisflown]

AIBU on two levels:

1. to want to baptise my 3 year old and start attending local mass weekly in order to get into one of the best schools in the area (and our closest school, although the next closest secular school is also an excellent one). Is this morally dubious? Or do lots of parents do the same?

1. to think that my transparent plan will work and help my child get a place even though we'll have been attending mass for less than a year by the time applications are made...and the applications want proof of "sustained weekly attendance". It doesnt define sustained though

My reasons for wanting my child to go to Catholic school are: (1.) It is a great school academically; (2) it's our closest school; (3) it's the only good faith school close to us (there's a CofE school but it's doesn't perform well academically), and as a non-Catholic but practising Christian, I'd quite like to see faith incorporated into my child's school day...even in a different denomination.

Has anyone done this? Has anyone succeeded?

It's more 'why did the stodge that people used to mock as superstitious/backward/suffering-obsessed/Rosary-wielding mumbo-jumbo suddenly turn into delicious sweets once parents realised that said schools got good academic results?'

Yes I’d be blatantly chasing the education. So sue me.

But there is no reason whatsoever why our state education should be tied up in the various churches who have less and less impact on our daily lives.

It’s a ridiculous system. I don’t respect it. If I still lived in the UK (thankfully I don’t) I’d be doing everything I can to get my child the best education within it.

Yes the 6m baptism rule has changed at this school. Makes sense if different countries have different cultural norms.

"You can't expect people to play fair in an unfair system"

True that you can't expect it. But you can hope that people will stand up for what they believe is right, rather than becoming a part of that very system.

As for the wondering how and why you didn't get the sweets in the first place analogy, that's also part of a life that is inherently unfair. It's not fair that it's infinitely harder for some people to simply be given sweets, but it is possible to do everything in your to power to earn those sweets fair and square, to make your own sweets, or to try to stop the cycle, rather than to have the entitled attitude of I deserve them so I'm going to steal them or be deceitful to get them.

It's like saying, you have sweets I want, so I'm jus going to pretend to be your friend to get them once I get them you won't be my friend anymore because I really only wanted the sweets.

Nope. It’s like saying ‘the government has given out sweets but not enough to go round. You can get the sweets if you follow the rules set for getting the sweets, which are playing with me for 50% of break time for this school year. I can pretend you won’t or shouldn’t get the sweets unless you actually like me, but that’s not really the case’ and then moaning when people follow the rules to get the sweets.

It’s a ridiculous system. I don’t respect it. If I still lived in the UK (thankfully I don’t) I’d be doing everything I can to get my child the best education within it.

Well, there we differ. I think the UK education system is dysfunctional and ridiculous and perpetuates inequality, but I am not prepared to play the system by faking religious practice in a faith for which (judging by many posters on here) I have zero respect, while priding myself I'm doing something clever. That to me is the equivalent of covering over your steak with coleslaw before you get to the work canteen till and sniggering because you're sticking it to the system.

All state education should be fully secular.

That's part of the reason we want DS to go to Catholic school (he's mixed race), the school is a lot more diverse then our other (equally good academically) secular local option.

Our criteria are very fair I think, attendence by a parent once a month and no need for volunteering. DH goes most weeks. DS comes about twice a month. DC do have to be baptised but I can't remember if there's an age limit.

The strictest local school is CofE, weekly attendence plus 'involvement in the life of the parish'...its in the posh bit of town! We didn't apply.

I dont mind if my child is indoctrinated. I dont think the fear of god does them any harm, and its a good moral upbringing, plus a general ethos of every child having the same dignity under god.
I also dont expect that my child would be a lifelong catholic if it didnt ring true to them, and if it does, then thats fine.
Ive moved my child recently to a catholic school from a comprehensive and the support is just objectively better. I believe that it is his best chance of completing mainstream, so if some people think that I shouldnt send him to this state funded school, then I really dont care. Didnt Jesus love ALL the children?

But you can hope that people will stand up for what they believe is right, rather than becoming a part of that very system.

Where are the people of faith standing up for what’s right?

Or do they honestly believe that it’s right that state funded schools should get to segregate four year olds by religion, and socially discriminate to the point where the odds of a local poor child being at a faith school is around 2/3 compared to children in the local area?

Expecting people who are discriminated against by a state system to embrace the discrimination and negative effects of it without looking at how they can subvert the discrimination is unrealistic. Wrapping it in a moralistic blanket while the state and churches are engaging in a thoroughly immoral practice and parents applying to faith schools are colluding in it is hypocrisy of the first order.

but I am not prepared to play the system by faking religious practice in a faith for which (judging by many posters on here) I have zero respect, while priding myself I'm doing something clever

And I’m not prepared to disadvantage my child in an area so close to my heart (education) because the country has such a shit system.

Everyone has their priorities.

And I wouldn’t see it as doing something ‘clever’, just navigating a fucked up world the best I can.

@LaurieMarlow

I think where we, and indeed a lot of people on this thread, agree is that religion simply shouldn't factor in to state schools.

What we see differently is obviously what the right thing to do to get a 'good' school is but also what constitutes a good school. Is it Ofsted and academic 'excellence' on paper or is it also about the morals and ethics of the teaching staff as well as all the families who make up that school? My preferred primary in not religious and it's academically below average in all areas, largely because it offers fantastic support for SEN children and, as such, accepts and welcomes many children who will thrive there but not necessarily in the sense of meeting national averages. It's statistics are therefore skewed from the off. It's not an outstanding school on paper by any means, but it is on core values, teaching and community.

It is worth me now stating my child is actually at a faith school, which was not my choice. But faith schools have so messed up our local catchments that it was our only option (and we only got this one because it had a bad Ofsted report and the distant churchgoing parents suddenly decided they weren’t so committed to faith education after all).

I don’t blame the distant parents for seeking more equal treatment in getting their kids a state-funded education. If you create a preferential system, and particularly one that enables social selection, people are going to try to access it.

So you have no concerns about depriving people who are actually practising Catholics getting a place at the school?

Or do they honestly believe that it’s right that state funded schools should get to segregate four year olds by religion, and socially discriminate to the point where the odds of a local poor child being at a faith school is around 2/3 compared to children in the local area?

I don’t think anyone believes that, but when the system favours you, you keep schtum.

Wrapping it in a moralistic blanket while the state and churches are engaging in a thoroughly immoral practice and parents applying to faith schools are colluding in it is hypocrisy of the first order.

A million times this.

'I don't really want to waste my time if there's no chance of this working.'

Ugh what a grubby hypocrite you are.

but also what constitutes a good school.

Sure. I said upthread that the OP should consider whether it was the right school for her.

Both my DC are baptised. They both got a place at the local Catholic School based on that and not on church attendance as that was the admissions policy at that time.

However Faith Schools change their admissions policy on a yearly basis so one year you may have to prove Church attendance for the previous one or two years and the next year only that they have been baptised.

So you have no concerns about depriving people who are actually practising Catholics getting a place at the school?

Are their children deserving of preferential treatment in accessing a local state-funded service because of the deity their parents believe in?

I think it morally wrong but many people do this. Are you comfortable with your very young child being influenced by Catholic doctrine? I'm a 'keep your rosaries away from my ovaries' believer so it's not something I would ever consider.

Oh YANBU at all. Do what you need to for your child.
I was baptised to get into a catholic school. I didn’t believe any of the religious stuff but I loved that school.

A bit OT, but I've begun wondering a bit about the assumption, that seems fairly unchallenged on this thread, that the most academic school (in terms of results) automatically = the 'best' school (particularly in view of PPs' posts about children with SEN being managed out of some schools of this type).

So, a child that comes from a catholic background who does follow their faith should be weighted up against someone who couldn't care less about it?
The point that there shouldn't be Catholic school is irrelevant because there are and that's it.

"While the state and churches are engaging in a thoroughly immoral practice"

So if you believe it's thoroughly immoral, why would you want to be a part of it?!

The point that there shouldn't be Catholic school is irrelevant because there are and that's it.

So the non religious are just supposed to accept a discriminatory system in such an important area as education?

Not going to happen.

YANBU.
Your child comes first and foremost.

KUGA

Sending your child to be “indoctrinated” into a faith you don’t actually believe in, and telling them at home to lie about it, isn’t acting in your child's interest. It’s a disgusting example.