I’m so fed up with all this vegan wankery

[TitaniaQueenOfTheFairies]

To all you actual vegans, amazing, I wish you a long and happy life.

I am just so fed up with veganism taking over the world, when I have yet to come across an actual one. *edited to say that some places in the world don’t have a choice

Restaurants falling over themselves with vegan menus offering fake meat and plastic cheese.

Veganuary - people just going to the supermarket and buying fake meat, rather than actually trying to eat differently.

People eating ‘vegan food’. Just eat an apple, or a carrot with houmous or any other naturally occurring food that an animal hasn’t produced. It’s not hard.

And I can’t even begin with all the plant based twattery. Many people have been quietly eating less or no meat, fish, eggs & dairy for many years and have had no need to pontificate about it.

I know I am probably being unreasonable but I just need to say it.

Yes, but it is only vegans who judge everyone else, isn't it?

I mean the thread title is "fed up with this Vegan wankery" but Vegans are the only ones who judge? umm ok. Literally every thread I've seen about Vegans on here was started by someone who isn't a vegan complaining about vegans

Never mind @PeterRouseTheFleshofMankind-you will still be able to enjoy a turkey sandwich with Belinda....

“Yes, but it is only vegans who judge everyone else, isn't it?“

Blimey. Did someone actually say that, on this thread, without irony?

*Hasn't the huge rise in demand for quinoa in the West caused lots of problems for the people who actually produce it?

Still, as long as we get what we need so that we can pontificate about how it's objectively wrong for humans to kill animals for food....*

Unfortunately the root cause of these problems is intensive grain farming for producing livestock feed. The more land and resources used to farm grains for the animal agriculture industry, the less there is for human beings. Quinoa is a drop in the ocean in comparison.

But still, as long as we can get what we want while pontificating that eating meat is morally justifiable, right?

Never mind @PeterRouseTheFleshofMankind-you will still be able to enjoy a turkey sandwich with Belinda....

And a bottle of Chilean Chardonnay.

YABU, haven't RTFT but I love all this "vegan wankery"

I really like to have the choice of meat-free meals when I eat out, dairy free coffee when I want a latte, I'm not a vegan, just like choice.

Don't see why its a problem for anyone, surely the meat/dairy/non-vegan choices are still there??

Maccies has now vegan burger in Canada. Not suitable for vegetarians and vegans🤦 Because they don't use separate grill🤦
Just read it in news...

I honestly don't get this avocado/quinoa nonsense. All the people I know eat these things! It's not a vegetarian/vegan thing!

What I do absolutely hate is companies jumping on the Vegan bandwagon eg shampoo and hair dye claiming to be Vegan, when they still test on animals, very annoying

Maybe I am a shit vegan but I wouldn't have a problem with that @IAmALazyArse 🤷‍♀️.

@HugsAreMyDrugs we always cooked all separately. Lots of people asked about it too.

This is btw also the reason why I pointed out up thread that if someone has allergies, please still alert the staff even if the meal is marked as vegan.

Maybe I am a shit vegan but I wouldn't have a problem with that

Me neither

why does what other people eat bother you so much? to be honest it sounds like maybe you need a hobby..

The opening post starts

"To all you actual vegans, amazing, I wish you a long and happy life."

That seems clear to me: actual vegans are saluted and regarded as a good thing, for themselves if nothing else.

Then it continues

"I am just so fed up with veganism taking over the world, when I have yet to come across an actual one."

Because I had read the opening post I assumed the word "wankery" was intended to apply to all the faffing and fussing and virtue-signalling, rather than to actual vegans. It seems that TitaniaQueenOfTheFairies must have encountered nobody who is really a vegan, and a lot of the peripheral hoo-ha being thrown up by people who while not actually vegan make a fuss about it.

Hi clay

Quote: I absolutely agree that meat has been important in human development in history, that doesn't mean we need to keep doing it though.

And it is precisely because we have developed our brains and intellect and strength eating meat that it should continue to be the default. As a planet we have to learn to manage our precious resources responsibly and regenerative farming is the start of this process. Google it, have a look at Allan Savory to see how he and others are reclaiming poor soil using ruminants #enddesertification.

Can I just add, clay, about your comments re dogs "Regarding the dogs question, are you really saying no one would care if they started killing and eating dogs here?"

If ever we arrived at the point where eating dogs was considered in this country, we would be in a very precarious position, possibly a world war . Hopefully though, that never happens and we don't have to resort to eating our pets. Question you have to ask yourself though is this, if eating pet dogs stood between survival and death, what would you choose? For yourself, your family?

I'm with GoldenKelpie

It's precisely because humans have eaten animals throughout history that we have come to a point where we are in a position to be able to navel gaze about how wrong it is to eat animals and how humans 'don't need to eat animals' . A little ironic don't you think? Humans are omnivores.

I get the argument that we eat far too much meat, and far too much shitty meat, and that intensive farming causes lots of issues. I don't have a problem with any of that. I don't have a problem with people being vegan because they recognise that they are privileged enough to have access to such a wide range of food that they can get everything they need nutrionally without having to consume any animal products.

I have a problem with this idea that humans eating animals is inherently wrong and that humans using animals for their own gain is objectively terrible.

My ds is vegan , does he talk non stop about it ? No
Does he eat “meat substitutes” ?No
Does he think non vegans are heathen monsters ? Also no .
When he’s home he cooks his own food and doesn’t moan about what we or anybody else eats .
I’m actually pretty impressed as he was a fully fledged burger/steak lover ,that’s some conviction and will power right there

Hi @GoldenKelpie

In response to first question;

And it is precisely because we have developed our brains and intellect and strength eating meat that it should continue to be the default. As a planet we have to learn to manage our precious resources responsibly..."

Even though meat and animal product consumption is a huge contributor to global warming?

Apparently the Co2 emissions from animal agriculture outweigh all transport worldwide! Isn't that incredible?

Have you seen the rise in vegan athletes currently though? Is it Venus Williams, certainly Lewis Hamilton, plenty of bodybuilders. We don't need meat for strength, this is another myth perpetuated by the meat industry. (Many of the strongest animals only eat plants, elephants, gorillas, bison etc).

Thanks for the regenerative farming tip, I haven't heard of that and will look into it.

I apologise for lobbing this in and disappearing. I have had a stressful week at work and also supporting a friend in crisis.

It’s interesting that the word vegan in the title draws so many, I don’t think I’ve even had a thread that has drawn so many opinions. Well, not since one about Father Christmas, but that’s another story.

Sometimes I start a thread based on something I am mulling over, and it’s easy just to download onto MN.

What I find irritating is the vegetarian dishes on menus and in supermarkets being replaced with vegan recipes. I don’t want a plant based pea protein burger with coconut oil ‘cheese’. I would prefer a chickpea and beetroot burger with a slice of cheddar, or the like.

Sainsbury’s have just published their Christmas food. There are 5 vegan main dishes vs 1 vegetarian. The perfectly acceptable nut roast thing has vegan goo in the middle (it appears to be trying to replicate melting cheese).

I hear people saying, I’m not vegan but I like vegan food. So fucking what? I eat roasted vegetables with chick peas and maybe some sweet potato fries on the side. I don’t think, Yum! Vegan. It’s just food. Vegan, as far as I understand is a philosophy that goes beyond food.

If you like meat or eggs or dairy, eat it. Maybe just eat less of it. And fill the rest of your plate with vegetables. Or just eat as much as you want. But if you would like to eat something that doesn’t involve these ingredients then perhaps try some new recipes rather than choose the fake options. It’s rather lacking in imagination.

If fake meat, or whatever, is helping you to transition do you really want to give it up? Do you really need to give it up?

Just more brain downloading...too much in it at the moment

@GoldenKelpie

In response to your other post,

"Question you have to ask yourself though is this, if eating pet dogs stood between survival and death, what would you choose? For yourself, your family?"

I certainly would eat the dog, if it was about survival. It certainly isn't here and now though, so why do we feel the need to breed and slaughter innocent and trusting animals just to satisfy our tastebuds?

Loads of vegan food is surprisingly amazing! My big meat eating partner has now been vegan almost 2 years. His reasoning was "Well, there isn't really an argument against it which is good enough, the food is great and I feel healthier than before." Honestly if he can do it, anyone can I never in my wildest dreams would have imagined this!!

Have you seen the rise in vegan athletes currently though? Is it Venus Williams, certainly Lewis Hamilton, plenty of bodybuilders. We don't need meat for strength, this is another myth perpetuated by the meat industry. (Many of the strongest animals only eat plants, elephants, gorillas, bison etc).

Venus Williams, Lewis Hamilton etc have access to a range of foods and also artificial supplements that 99% of humans throughout 99.99% of history never had, it's not really surprising that they are doing OK!! Humans thrived because of their omnivorous evolution. Whilst the fact that the wealthiest and most privileged people on the planet can thrive without consuming animal products, it doesn't mean that all humans can thrive without them, and it certainly doesn't mean that using animals for food is inherently wrong.

(Many of the strongest animals only eat plants, elephants, gorillas, bison etc).

So? Those animals have completely different anatomies to humans. They use their food in a different way. That's no better than saying that humans should eat meat because lions do.

Sorry the last sentence of my first paragraph doesn't make sense, but hopefully you know what I mean!

Many of the strongest animals only eat plants, elephants, gorillas, bison etc

The strongest animal (which is actually an insect) on a planet eats dung. A poo😁 Just thought this can bring a smile to someone's face.