I don’t think any kind of “unity” is possible - the best we can hope for is peaceful parallel lives

[Really222]

On the News yesterday, I caught the tail end of a report about Brexit and the fishing industry. A woman who runs two businesses has already lost 40K preparing for a possible no deal, but maintains that she would vote leave again.

When asked why, she said she had voted not for herself but for the good of the country as a whole, and for her grandchildren.

Another fisherman was interviewed. In his opinion we have to leave, deal or no deal, and no deal is fine, as long as we leave.

I am speaking from a remain point of view, but I hear stuff like the above and now feel a level of despair.

Presumably there are leavers who feel the same way about what they would consider to be extreme remain positions.

So when the PM talks about unity, he and others are totally deluded IMO. I think the best we can hope for is people getting on with others inside their own communities, but having very little understanding of or empathy for what is going on for other communities. Maybe it has always been like this.

I think whatever the outcome now, many people will feel bitter for a long time.

(Of course I know that Johnson could not give a stuff about any kind of unity, for him it is simply a slogan, and the fact that it has been infiltrating primary schools is chilling.)

I don't know if you're right but I agree, I do worry we are now too divided to get back to 'normal' after brexit. I think the social consequences (and that's not including the bigger 'real' conseuqnences eg Ireland) will continue until my children are middle aged.

I agree. I was reading a thread last night where the OP had asked who people would vote for if there was an election today. There were quite a few people who had said conservative, and I couldn’t help but think “why on EARTH would you vote for them after all that’s happened these past 3 years?” I really don’t think I could ever understand it. But there are people who think that of my opinion too.

We’re so divided at the moment, and many of us are so strong in our opinions that I don’t think unity is something we could achieve at the moment.

Fortunately the vast majority of people outside Mumsnet put aside their political differences among friends and family and get on just fine. I feel sorry for those of you who seem incapable of doing that as you will have very unhappy lives. But if your parents voted leave and you voted remain for example, and you’re happy to destroy your relationship with them over that, then your priorities are seriously wrong IMO.

Who would you vote for then MaMa?

Because I genuinely don’t know.

Oh rubbish. I have family who voted differently and continue to get on well with them. But as a society our differences have come to the fore and if you can't see that you're a bit daft

DH and I have very opposing views. We don't talk about it and it works fine.

It's a total shit show. We have a strict 'no B word' policy with my parents and in laws as we have very different views. This now includes Boris.

I just dont know who I would vote for but it definitely would not be conservatives.

Oh rubbish. I have family who voted differently and continue to get on well with them.

You’ve clearly missed the threads on MN then, where people have said they can’t forgive friends and family for voting leave

Here’s one that springs to mind:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3659763-Brexit-still-affecting-family-relationships-total-loss-of-respect-for-my-Dad

violetandrose

To be fair, I’ve no idea at the moment. I almost always vote labour but there are some policies that I can’t get on board with. I do think people are scared of JC due to reasons they read in the papers though so I try to keep my opinions based on what I see him do myself.

My area has a very solid conservative seat but I cannot stand my MP.

I don’t think it’s about destroying close relationships with family and friends it’s on a much more fundamental level than that. I can only compare it to the Independence Referendum in Scotland which, for me, felt very divided. The debate fell far from being polite discussion and agree to disagree. I saw folk from both sides of the debate behave really badly, undermining each other; each accusing the other of being “unscottish” for the views that they held, there was a horribly racist undertone in the whole thing.

I honestly don’t think we’ve recovered from the level of vitriol during that time, it’s not a matter of falling out with friends or family so much as knowing how far people will go to prove their point - on both sides - and actually seeing some folk for who they are and what they believe in a way that is deeply unflattering.

I think the Brexit debate has exposed a seam of racism, xenophobia and “me first at all costs” that I don’t think will be easily healed now whatever happens.

Well, if your family votes leave and your partner has been told they won’t be able to remain in the uk following the ‘hostile environment’ created in the wake of Brexit, I can see how you’d find it hard to forgive. Or if you lose your job because your company moves all the jobs to the Netherlands...

Unfortunately polarized camps and mutual demonization seem to be the order of the day.

I can’t see what the future will look like, really.

Maybe we’ll eventually get a compromise status with the EU, and everyone will be partially mollified. Norway style maybe. But I think Brexit is inevitable.

I agree that unity is a long way out of reach.

People have talked about Brexit in terms of a divorce between the UK and the EU but we have a much bigger mess within the country that we aren't even talking about. There is an acrimonious hell going on between different groups of people within the population and no sense of us all being on the same team at all. In this case the split is not a clear categorisation on geographical location, religious denomination, or wealth. It would be easier to resolve if it was. At the moment our differences seem irreconcilable and you often see flippant suggestions for comedy ways to "get rid" of the inconvenient other half of the country so the rest of us can get on with the path we wish to follow. I think both sides are deluded that "the people" are actually on their side. Brexiteers keep banging on about how we must deliver Brexit as it is the Will of the People. Remainers demanding a People's Vote or a General Election are just as deluded - any such thing would show again what we already know - we are split roughly half and half. But unlike with a divorce we cannot sell the house, split the money and go our separate ways amicably. Neither side has a greater right to dictate over the other but we have no sense of partnership. Going through with a no-deal brexit is, in divorce analogy terms, like clearing out the joint account, maxing out the credit cards and changing the locks on the family home. it is taking unilateral devastating action which will only make the inevitable painstaking process of mediation more difficult and acrimonious. Even worse for us we simply cannot carve up the country between leavers and remainers, divorce is not possible. We have to reconcile.

I don't have a solution.

Brexiteers keep banging on about how we must deliver Brexit as it is the Will of the People. Remainers demanding a People's Vote or a General Election are just as deluded

Exactly! I don’t think many people can even see that. It’s so tribal.

You’ve clearly missed the threads on MN then, where people have said they can’t forgive friends and family for voting leave

Thata a choice. Which is what the pp who you quoted was saying.

I manage to get through everyday without having a heated debate about brexit. I manage to get on with people who voted leave and respect their choice.

Both sides came out of the other night very poorly indeed.

I get why people dont understand why people wouldnt vote conservative. I dont understand that, or people who are so ardent about voting for labour or lib dems.

I have no clue who to vote for and think this has become a pissing contest. BJ on one side trying to prove how hard he is trying to leave and how calm and collected he is about it. The other side trying to show how awful leaving would be and how awful everything is.

If my teenager behaved like any of them in a debate I would be telling them to catch themselves on.

I think the Brexit debate has exposed a seam of racism, xenophobia and “me first at all costs” that I don’t think will be easily healed now whatever happens.

Yes.

And I actually think that the true results of leaving the EU will not be obvious for some months/years.

But you know what? The Leave contingency will still say that it was worth it so that we could be "free of the EU" and could "govern ourselves" and all the other rhetoric they spout.

I haven't spoken to my sister and her husband as we have very opposing views.

I agree with the OP. Some relationships will likely not be healed. The repercussions will go on... and on... and on.

I was actually disagreeing with your suggestion that if we can all just get on with our friends and family it'll all be fine. I'm sure some rifts have appeared.

Thata a choice. Which is what the pp who you quoted was saying.

Of course it’s a choice. Where did I say it wasn’t?

The pp dismissed what I said as rubbish, when in fact there are people whose family relationships have been damaged over Brexit because they refuse to look past that.

I was actually disagreeing with your suggestion that if we can all just get on with our friends and family it'll all be fine.

Ah - well your post wasn’t very clear IMO. And anyway, I never said “it’ll all be fine”. I said I think it’s very sad when people put politics ahead of family and friends. And I think those people have got their priorities wrong.

But it's more fundamental than whether friends and family get on or don't. It's about national unity and British values.

I was talking to DH about this the other day. I don't think it is too far fetched so say that Brexit has sparked the modern equivalent of civil war in the UK. These days we don't take up our swords and pitchforks, but the same vitriol is there (just look at half the Brexit threads on MN!), and the intense division across all social classes, genders, races, etc. There is a complete X vs Y rift across the whole population and both sides fervently believe they are in the right.

Politicians are mad if they think Brexit will just go away if they can block it on 31st October. This is a toxic issue that isn't going to go away for many years yet, and I suspect it will take a generation.

I'm not planning on falling out with any friends or family over Brexit. I accept and respect that people have different views and I'm not arrogant enough to believe that my views are the only right views.

Once a decision has been made one way or the other we can move forward as a country.

I don't think it is too far fetched so say that Brexit has sparked the modern equivalent of civil war in the UK.

I never thought of it like that before but it’s a very interesting analogy!

But it's more fundamental than whether friends and family get on or don't.

Surely it’s a good starting point though, to be tolerant of each other’s views? If people can’t even get on with their own parents any longer over Brexit then what hope do we have? I find the OP’s views profoundly depressing to be honest.