Shamima Begum....where do you stand?

[LeahSMS]

What are your thoughts?

AIBU to think she was only a child but unfortunately she’s now considered as a threat so therefore she will never return it’s not only about her safety but the people around her?

Tell me your thoughts

I only come on mumsnet for parenting advice and I'd actually forgotten how left wing mumsnet actually is. Theres no point discussing things like this in here because the majority believe everyone deserves multiple chances, and think its OK for our tax to pay for terrorists to come and live here. Luckily that's not how the whole country thinks

So say she was promised this lovely married life and then she got there and just happily skipped along to go murder people?

[interviewer] "Did you know what Islamic State were doing when you left for Syria? Because they had beheaded people. There were executions."

[Begum] "Yeah, I knew about those things and I was okay with it. Because, you know, I started becoming religious just before I left."

"From what I heard, Islamically that is all allowed. So I was okay with it."

And Gronky what do you suggest her options were if she refused to do as her husband asked?

It's likely that she's been further radicalised by Isis during her time in the camps and will be a huge security risk if she comes back.

@Gronky

So say she was promised this lovely married life and then she got there and just happily skipped along to go murder people?

[interviewer] "Did you know what Islamic State were doing when you left for Syria? Because they had beheaded people. There were executions."

[Begum] "Yeah, I knew about those things and I was okay with it. Because, you know, I started becoming religious just before I left."

"From what I heard, Islamically that is all allowed. So I was okay with it."

I don't think you quite understand what grooming and brainwashing actually means. And if she said the truth and still wasn't allowed in the UK, do you think ISIS would be letting her live happily and not bother to find her?

@sailingblue I don't think her father had any role in her radicalisation. Wasn't he living in Bangladesh and has apologised for what she has done

And Gronky what do you suggest her options were if she refused to do as her husband asked?

I was asking if there's any accounts of her being physically tortured on a daily basis.

Shame her father cannot take her in

I was asking if there's any accounts of her being physically tortured on a daily basis.

Of course there won't be physical accounts, why would there be? It's fucking ISIS. Women aren't going to be running off to the police or journalists right after being tortured to explain everything, they wouldn't be able to leave so easily and would likly be threatened if they said anything.

But Gronky please do answer my question, what alternatives whole she was with ISIS do you think she would have had?

I think we have to look at the evidence and use a bit of deduction to gauge what her life was. The treatment meted out to Yazidi women hass been a horror of the 21st century: www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/25/yazidis-isis-female-only-commune-jinwar-syria

Shamima was (is?) a teenage girl who was groomed into joining a violent cult. Young women who were sexually abused by the Children of God didn't come forward straight away to speak about it.

Like hell would Shamima Begum tell a journalist (especially a male one) about sexual coercion while she was still in a camp, surrounded by other ISIS wives and fighters. If she did experience sexual abuse, it might be years before she acknowledges it to herself.

It's a slap in the face to anyone who has lost someone down to terrorism

When I was a teenager, our rebellion was drinking in the park, snogging boys, and the occasional sleepover that was actually us sneaking out. We did not join a bloody terrorist cell.
She is a murderer, a mass murderer. And she is not our problem.

@GreytExpectations You're telling me you seriously believe that a 15yo has no clue as to the severity of joining IS?

God help us if that's the level of sense teenagers possess.

There's no comparison between a girl being sexually abused and someone who made a choice to join IS.
It's disgraceful that you'd even attempt to draw parallels between the two; I wonder what the families of the Rotherham victims would think/say if they heard you group them together with a terrorist. I cannot see someone who chose terrorism as a victim.

Citizenship isn't just given by being born in this country

And if she said the truth and still wasn't allowed in the UK, do you think ISIS would be letting her live happily and not bother to find her?

When she gave the interview, IS had essentially collapsed in that area. NBC conducted interviews at the time with those who had converted to Christianity. It seems like admitting to apostasy would be far more dangerous than admitting to being a brutalised wife, if there were indeed IS death squads roaming around:
www.nbcnews.com/news/world/life-under-isis-led-these-muslims-christ-n963281

I'm saying that grooming and brainwashing is designed to change the way people, it's purpose is to use persuading tactics. I'm not grouping rape victims together with terrorists, I like other posters, are pointing out that similar grooming and brainwashing tactics are used. You jumped to that conclusion for dramatic purposes.

@ActuallyItsEugene

A child who can still be tried as an adult in the courts.
Over the age of criminal responsibility.

Which is why I said she should be rehabilitated in the UK.

Please don't tell me you're trying to compare a 15yo who made the calculated choice to run away and join a terrorist organisation, therefore committing a criminal act, to a 15yo who is groomed for sex.

Why is a 15yo groomed into terrorism/sex with terrorists 'calculated' when a 15yo groomed into sex isn't?

Neither are calculated. As @SimonJT, you can't choose your groomer.

We are increasing getting terrorism issues from multigenerational immigration i.e. foreign born parents or foreign born themselves which is totally avoidable we have immigration controls they were from outside the EU we should have used them.

Not too much racism going on there 🙄
One of our biggest terrorist threats is white supremacy

Funny how some on mn think we should take her back and yet I have never seen a thread asking if we should take jack Letts back. Ok he was 18 when he went but not that much older than the nearly 16 year old SB.
But then he is white and male so no one really gives a shit. I don’t either and can both rot as far as I am concerned In fact my answer to what should happen to them is we should hand them over to the yazidis mothers who had to watch their daughters raped and their sons murdered.

@GreytExpectations

That’s commendable, but she obviously doesn’t not being phased by severed heads in bins.

You obviously don't understand what severe grooming, brainwashing and daily torture would do to a person's mind.

You jumped to that conclusion for dramatic purposes.

Please see above.

It’s a tricky one because on one hand I do believe she was groomed and has lost her children which is absolutely awful, but then said something along the lines of still believing in the ideology or not regretting her decision to leave, And then after her children died She then said she’d made a mistake.

But ultimately she is a British citizen so I would say for her to be tried in a court of law and then whether she gets a prison sentence or sent to a mental health hospital to get rehabilitation, then perhaps be kept tabs on for the rest of her life once released.

Unsure on if that’s harsh or not but I do get the knee jerk reaction of anger.

In all honesty she is so young now it is hard to know what the rest of her life will be... nope! I started, got to about 6 pages of wondering.

Her life is fucked... there is little that can be done that will properly undo that. She will be the focus of all sorts of attention, will require a lot of security attention etc.

I am stuck between feeling so very angry on her behalf and so very angry at her. I suspect that is the same for many others too.

Whatver happens I hope she finds some peace in her life and is the cause of no more issues.

And I'm very glad not to be the person who has to work it all out in real life!

@GreytExpectations There was no reason for you to bring up the Rotherham victims, apart from attempting to compare the two.
Grooming and sexually abusing someone isn't in the same league as what Begum did.

You've not answered my question either. Do you genuinely believe that a 15yo has no clue as to how IS operates?

Poor old Begum wasn't such a victim when she joined a the female fighting group, or when she supervised the beheadings being carried out.
She only fled to the refugee camp when ISIS lost control in that area, I don't doubt that if they hadn't lost control she'd still be there.

Being born on UK soil doesn't get you UK nationality, and hasn't done since 1981, IIRC. Being born on UK soil with a British parent gets you UK nationality, although there has been some fine print around that.

Being born on UK soil to foreign parents and living here from birth to ten years old gets you the right to pay over a thousand pounds to be recognised at of UK nationality, and at last check this means the Home Office profits over 700 pounds per application, for a regulation that is in place as part of the UK's commitment to an international accord to prevent statelessness.

You can't change the law to say that UK-born children of foreign born parents inherit their parents nationality, because all other nations set their own rules about nationality. If they hold that citizens must be born on national territory to inherit nationality, then that's their rule.