Shamima Begum....where do you stand?

[LeahSMS]

What are your thoughts?

AIBU to think she was only a child but unfortunately she’s now considered as a threat so therefore she will never return it’s not only about her safety but the people around her?

Tell me your thoughts

She shouldn’t be allowed back. She’s a danger to society and I don’t doubt she will be brainwashing children every chance she gets.

She chose to become an enemy of the country she was born in.

And she is not our problem.

Whose problem is she then?

But Gronky please do answer my question, what alternatives whole she was with ISIS do you think she would have had?

Apologies, I attempted to respond but the message doesn't seem to have appeared. From her interviews, she seems to have been well aware of the brutality of IS before she ventured out to join them. Claiming that the threat of violence (as opposed to your initial claim of 'daily torture') reduces her culpability seems akin to a bank robber claiming that they were driven to rob the bank by the possibility of their co-conspirators turning violent if they didn't comply while the robbery was in progress.

She’s a danger to society and I don’t doubt she will be brainwashing children every chance she gets.

But you're perfectly happy for her to be a danger to foreigners and brainwashing their children.

@Cadent

We'd have to be of the belief that Begum had no idea what IS were, what they did, what they believed to even begin to try and defend her fleeing as her being groomed.
Which is why the (disgraceful) analogy between her and the Rotherham victims makes no sense.

A 15 year old, who was in school, would have no doubt seen the conditions these 'fighters' live in. She would know the acts carried out, the message IS wanted to get across, the violence and atrocities they actioned.
It's not exactly a secret.
If we're to believe that someone painted it to her as a fantastic life filled with joy and happiness, it wouldn't have taken much to work out that it wasn't.

She's a terrorist. She made the choice. She joined a group of female fighters, she supervised beheadings and only fled once IS lost control in the area she resided.
I cannot sympathise with her.

If she's to come back, the only sensible thing to do would be put her in prison and leave her there. We've no idea whether she's coming back to attempt to recruit more young 'fighters'. She'd need to be monitored 24/7 365. She could never be trusted.
The majority of terrorist attacks in this country are carried out by people known to the police. They cannot supervise the amount of known risks already in this country, why should we add more?

I grudgingly accept that if she makes it back to thr U.K. alive, she should be tried and sentenced here. We shouldn’t make any attempt to rescue her or assist her in any way.

Where on Earth was she hanging out online that she was even able to be identified and targetted by ISIS? And why would joining a medieval death cult be appealing to a teenage girl. Grooming implies a level of lying and deceit - the whole world could see ISIS burning journalists alive in cages and was hearing what they were doing to Yazidi women and girls.

She’s a terrible person and a security risk and I hope she rots in a refugee camp. And yes, I’m from a Muslim background so don’t come at me about racism.

is it very odd how white terrorists are 'brainwashed' or have 'mental issues' and yet a 15yo brown girl is presented as cold and calculated and blasé about 'severed heads'. Anyone whose watched a war movie knows that exposure to violence can cause PTDS and numbness.

@ActuallyItsEugene

You're guessing about how much she was aware of. You are not allowing any possibility for manipulation.

If she's to come back, the only sensible thing to do would be put her in prison and leave her there

This is frankly ridiculous. She hasn't killed anyone.

@Cadent

I don't believe that a 15 year old was unaware of ISIS.

A 15 yo is a child. That’s like saying about a 15 yo who has been groomed into sex that ‘I don’t believe the 15 year old was unaware of grooming’.

It’s totally different. Child groomers target the child and make them believe they are in love with them and get them hooked on drugs.

This young lady wasn’t on drugs or in love with some one. She was was sold a dream and travelled very far to meet a marry a man she had never met. She knew what Isis was, she would have seen the men set on fire in cages, beheadings ect.. she was joining a war.

She was groomed but it was nothing like the grooming sex trafficking gangs it’s disingenuous to say they are the same.

However I don’t mind her coming back to the U.K. to be put in prison but the worry for me is that she would become a hero figure amongst other women who feel the same as she does and once she gets out would continue to be active

To be fair, the whole world can see Trump has got children in cages, and there are people who sincerely argue they aren't and that it is all a lie by corrupt Democrat-funded news organisations.

There's none so blind as those who will not see, and that may have included three 15-year-old school girls all egging each other on. (Or was it four?) I'll be honest, I don't think Shamima is that bright.

is it very odd how white terrorists are 'brainwashed' or have 'mental issues' and yet a 15yo brown girl is presented as cold and calculated and blasé about 'severed heads'.

Yes, this. I always think back to the man who murdered Jo Cox and the Daily Mail's front-page headline about him being a 'fragile loner with mental health issues.' The heart bleeds.

If she's to come back, the only sensible thing to do would be put her in prison and leave her there.

This is frankly ridiculous. She hasn't killed anyone

But people who were in prison that were being monitored for terrorism have come out and gone on to murder people.

She will always be a risk

@Cadent I believe the same of all terrorists. White, black, orange, blue, purple. The colour of their skin means absolutely nothing when they choose to plan and carry out atrocities.

'She hasn't killed anyone'
Hasn't she? You know that do you? She fled to join IS just for the jolly did she? Joined the group of female fighters for companionship?
What a load of bollocks.

She's a security risk. She is a danger.
I'm not allowing for any manipulation, no. Because I don't sympathise with terrorists. I believe they're inherently bad, in alignment with the acts they choose to carry out.

@Evelefteden Finally, someone who gets it! Thank you for putting it much more eloquently than I could.

She should be allowed back. She is Britain’s problem and she should be dealt with and rehabilitated here. I think we could learn from her how she was targeted and groomed.

Leave her there to rot. No way should she be coming back here, she made her choice.

I agree with you, timetest, but unfortunately I suspect public sentiment is more in line with those like Actually who have the idea that some people are 'inherently bad', which is simplistic and not conducive to learning.

For those so invested in her being 'brown' and it wouldn't happen if she was white... Jihadi Jack...

She should absolutely be allowed back here. She isn't a dual citizen. She's a British citizen and we have absolutely no right to break international human rights law by making her stateless. And even less of a right to try and bully Bangladesh into changing their laws around citizenship solely for the purpose of accepting a British citizen. That is total bullshit.

I am more ambivalent about what kinds of charges should be laid against her when she returns - I think she should face terrorism charges, but it should be taken into account that she was a child who was groomed.

But I think stripping her of citizenship would establish a very very worrying precedent.

@ActuallyItsEugene - Jihadi Jack is actually a dual UK-Canadian citizen. Although I still think that's shitty behaviour on the part of the UK and I'm not sure why we think it's reasonable to expect Canada to pick up after us. He was raised and radicalised here after all.

It's just laziness and arrogance on the part of the UK all round.

There needs to be a specialist system to deal with radicalisation as the prison system currently increases the risk rather than correct.

She was a minor, she is British and whatever you feel about her personally it is a threat to all citizens that a government can decide illegally that you are no longer a citizen - besides her personal case if it was upheld in law it would that mean it the sets a precedent? So it can happen to another person on the whim of the government.

It undermines the basic principle of how our rights are defined.

@timetest

She should be allowed back. She is Britain’s problem and she should be dealt with and rehabilitated here. I think we could learn from her how she was targeted and groomed.

That would be completely dependant on if she told the truth. She is a terrorist. Her mind is already broken. It must be to have an active role with in Isis. Supervising beheadings would change you. You’d never be the same person again.

@IntermittentParps Oh yes, let us allow the terrorist back into the country and rehabilitate her. She's been through so much. She definitely isn't a security risk, definitely won't attempt to recruit more fighters, definitely won't try to carry out more attacks. Poor innocent lamb.
The last time that was done, the London Bridge attacks happened and a poor young man who was trying to help rehabilitate these people was killed by one of them.

Wouldn't trust her as far as I can throw her.

@Lockheart

I suspect the people who are angry she's coming back correlate strongly with the group of people who are angry when we don't deport foreign criminals.

She's our problem, not Syria's. She should face the full weight of the law here, we can't dump her on another country.

Is she actually coming back though? I thought that the ruling would just mean that she would be allowed back. I've read nothing that says that the Foreign Office has to actually send a team into a conflict zone to get her out. Unless I've missed something. The whole citizenship argument in the context of the baby she lost was irrelevant anyway. Citizen or not, if you go to a place where the Foreign Office advises against all travel, you're on your own.

I think she should stay wherever she is. I don't see why she has to appeal in person, surely her lawyers can act on her behalf.