Shamima Begum....where do you stand?

[LeahSMS]

What are your thoughts?

AIBU to think she was only a child but unfortunately she’s now considered as a threat so therefore she will never return it’s not only about her safety but the people around her?

Tell me your thoughts

Bringing her back will create a precedent. Unfortunately for her, her rights are bound up in a bigger picture and this is the result of choices she has made.

she’d literally get away with murder, be treated better & have more human rights than Bangladesh which is why she wants to return here

Looking at some of the posts on here it would be hard to blame her; for all the talk about facing justice in the UK, it's only too easy to imagine he howls of "free poor traumatised Shamima, she's been punished enough!!" were she to return

Even if she later committed an atrocity on British soil, that would probably be deemed all our fault too, because we'd "abandoned her for too long" among other terrorist suspects. But then, to a certain mentality, everything always IS our fault ...

Leah I am not sure there is a perfect legal system.

The system in the UK is held in high regard it’s not perfect there will always be criminals that get away with crimes and sentences at times seem lenient but I doubt you will find lenient sentences in regard to those connected to terrorism - unless you are expecting life for every terrorist linked crime

No sympathy for her. She is a terrorist and a murderer. She rejected British values and clearly hated our country enough to run off to join murdering terrorist scum. She made her bed and now she can lie in it. If that means that she is tried in Syria or Bangladesh and is convicted then she may well be sentenced to die. So be it. She wanted to go to Syria. She is not some helpless victim. She colluded with terrorists and recruited for them and acted as an enforcer for them. She is not an innocent. She is cold and calculating and deserves whatever fate befalls her.

When mum announced at work that she was getting married her boss (and older never married woman) witheringly said ‘all you young girls are only interested in running off to get married to have sex’ (this was in the 1950s). So young women running off with the promise of ‘brave warrior’ husbands and babies/houses (built on the blood of innocent people)?

@EnthusiasmIsDisturbed
It’s very hard to say as people have taken this personally she turned her back on her own people/country she’s a traitor. Now she wants to come back & reclaim her human rights & be given a second chance. As a country can we afford to give people like her a second chance but that being said I do agree she is our problem

I doubt you will find lenient sentences in regard to those connected to terrorism

It's interesting you should say that Enthusiasm, considering that more terrorism-related offences have been added to the Unduly Lenient Sentence scheme: www.gov.uk/government/news/public-can-challenge-more-lenient-terror-sentences-from-today

Then there's the UN's view that female terrorists are at risk of re-redicalisation because of the leniency with which they tend to be treated: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/02/28/female-terrorists-risk-re-radicalisation-lenient-treatment-un/

I am not sure how many sentences have been challenged and sentences increased . That terrorism and the networking involved is very difficult to manage this is encouraging people to come forward. Tactics have had to change as society and more so technology has

How many have we sentenced here in this country Jihad brides I can think of one. Someone as high profile as SB will not be getting a lenient sentence she is too much of a political pawn - if she ever gets back here her life will be under scrutiny

"Winterlife Mon 30-Sep-19 19:27:19

@LeahSMS I believe Bangladesh has stated she is not a citizen, and I don't think they are willing to grant her citizenship."

That doesn'dt matter. The Uk renounced her British citizenship first so Bangladesh cannot render her stateless under interinational law. She would need to fight that in their courts and would probably win if Syria ever lets her go.

@xeina thanks for clearing that up I wasn’t sure if she didn’t apply for citizenship in BD could she be left stateless therefore we may have to take her back as she has only had one citizenship which Is British

Leah I don't think it works like that. If she chooses not to use her Bangladeshi citizensip that's obviously up to her, but the point seems to be that they can't refuse it to her now it's the only citizenship she has left

Of course, if Bangladesh choose not to meet their obligations, attention may well turn to the £192 million of aid the DFID are providing. Interestingly, the main spending programme for 2019/20 is "strengthening humanitarian preparedness and response", so some may well feel that if they're getting all that money for this purpose, they can spend some of it on Shamima

@puzzledandpissedoff that’s really interesting. It doesn’t look good for her at all as I doubt Bangladesh would feel the need to “rescue” her

Bangladesh have said they will not let her back in their country. I believe they cannot in law do that but that is the current position of theirs - they don't want her although as that is her only state left I don't think they have a right to refuse her if Syria ever lets her out and if she has the money to fly out of Syria. However that is only what I have read in the press.

I am just as concerned about all the others however (never mind the Yazidis who deserve much more time and money and help than the terrorists). I think 425 ( largest group in Europe) ISIS fighters have already returned to the UK by 2017 - www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/isis-british-jihadis-return-uk-iraq-syria-report-islamic-state-fighters-europe-threat-debate-terror-a8017811.html and the US wants us to take 600 more back of "ours" from Syria www.thesun.co.uk/news/10038678/us-demands-britain-isis-refugee/

Of course, if Bangladesh choose not to meet their obligations, attention may well turn to the £192 million of aid the DFID are providing

We’d have a real cheek if we, as a country, used the word obligation toward Bangladesh on this issue given that the girl was born, educated and radicalised here. Even more so if we tried to play blackmail with another countries aid to assist us washing our hands of someone who should be our problem to deal with.

Regardless of her history, she is not a citizen of this country and has no legal right to come here.

Any argument she might have with Bangladesh or any other country is none of our business.

she is not a citizen of this country
Not any more, no. Which is kind of the point, isn't it.

Bringing her back will create a precedent. Unfortunately for her, her rights are bound up in a bigger picture and this is the result of choices she has made.

This is untrue and really, really racist. Go and have a look at Bangladeshi laws and how often Bangladesh has used the death penalty.

You’re just assuming that a country wish a brown electorate cannot think for themselves or cast a sentient vote.

Regardless of her history, she is not a citizen of this country and has no legal right to come here.

She’s not.

It's a breach of international law to strip someone of the only citizenship they have, and trying to weasel out of it by claiming they 'could' get another citizenship cuts not ice with me.

Shamima Begum is a suspected criminal and I'd have absolutely no problem with her being arrested on arrival, put on trial, and hopefully sent to prison for a very long time. But making her stateless is itself immoral and unlawful. Two wrongs don't make a right and all that.

I don't think it is as simple as she now is stateless with the hope of another citzenship from Bangladesh.
The BBC reported that " Lord Carlile, a former independent reviewer of terrorism legislation, said that if Ms Begum's mother was a Bangladeshi national - as is believed to be the case - under Bangladesh law Ms Begum would be too. " It is also because of her age. I think 21 or 25 she loses that right but as she lost the UK one now she is not stateless currently. I believe 100 other dual nationals from the UK who went to join the terrorist cause have also lost their British citzenships too.

She is a Bangladeshi citizen because of her parentage. She doesn't need to apply for it, she just is.
For those who want to bring her to the UK, will you pay for the lifetime monitoring of a known security risk?

@Ibiza2015 why was that comment racist? I can’t see what you mean?

I haven't really seen any racism on the thread. Another case int oday's papers is Jack Letts - "Jihadi Jack" - of whom pictures in his jail in orange prison wear over there is show - lots of men in the same cell and clearly not very nice prison but we all know that when we go abroad to these places so again he made his bed on this. He is white. His father is Canadian and Jack has been stripped of his British citizenship so is now Canada's problem if he ever gets out. I don't think people feel differently about him than SB.

If we let these people back in it will be very expensive for us. There are lots of good causes in the UK that could do with more money rather than we spend it on these foolish (and in some case wicked) young people. I can certainly understand how upset the parents are and the Letts' parents were even prosecuted for sending him money. However the bottom line is if you have two citizenships then there is always this risk. It is not a one way street - that it is always good to have two passports etc.

@Xenia I agree. I haven’t seen any racism.

Thank you to everyone that commented. Very interesting to see how here a lot of people stand on this issue.

Speaking as a lawyer? Let her rot. We have enough to deal with in the UK justice system. For anyone that disagrees, go and speak to the parents of all the deceased children of Manchester.