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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Shamima Begum....where do you stand?

999 replies

LeahSMS · 26/09/2019 10:50

What are your thoughts?

AIBU to think she was only a child but unfortunately she’s now considered as a threat so therefore she will never return it’s not only about her safety but the people around her?

Tell me your thoughts

OP posts:
GladAllOver · 29/09/2019 18:47

Anyone researching ISIS online must have seen what they did to their victims. It's just not possible to browse the subject without seeing they were evil.

Kpo58 · 29/09/2019 19:10

True, but if they also read the Isis propaganda, it probably shows the West doing equally bad things and persecution of Muslims. It's brainwashing people in the same way conspiracy theories brainwash people to believe rediculas things such as the queen is really a lizard person. No factual evidence is going to make them think otherwise.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 29/09/2019 19:14

So you believe that barbaric torture and murder (and revelling in it), teaching children how to kill (also promoted online), and keeping Yazidi women as sex slaves (markets shown online too where women are sold off like cattle) is justifiable under any circumstances? These things weren’t disputed.

No, you just think ‘we’ll I’m ok because I am better than they are’.

Kpo58 · 29/09/2019 19:26

I have never said any of it is justified. It really isn't, but people see what they want to see. We only focus on what the enemy does and ignore any wrongdoings that countries allied with us do.

zzzzzzzz12345 · 29/09/2019 19:33

I do wonder where those of you talking about ‘evil isis’ have been when the west has been found to be involved in abuse, humiliation, torture, rendition and indefinite incarceration without trial. The UK are and always were implicit in this. Why is it ok for us to torture and kill and abuse but not others?

It isn’t. No torture or abuse is right. It’s all horrific but ours in the west is hidden behind politics and secrecy and anti terror laws whilst others sit on the internet for all to see. Is one worse than the other simply because it isn’t done behind a closed door? Doesn’t the secrecy, and hypocrisy, actually make ours worse?

We are all standing, as a country, in a huge glass house whilst we throw our stones.

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 29/09/2019 19:49

zzzzzzzz12345 whataboutery!!
You can not compare the beheadings of isis to frankly anything...they filmed a man being set on fire in a cage for god sake. Western democracy is not without flaws but it’s a hell of a lot better to the alternative.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 29/09/2019 19:55

@Kpo58 - I was doing a ‘you’ as in you but a general ‘you’ iykwim

zzzzzzzz12345 · 29/09/2019 20:31

@OnlyFoolsnMothers, I don’t know what’s on the internet for which grateful. All I know is that things which are just as bad - civilian killings, torture, starvation, waterboarding - were done in the name of democracy. We like to think we’re so much more civilised, but we’re not. It’s just hidden.

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 29/09/2019 20:54

zzzzzzzz12345 We are completely more civilised, we aren’t raping whole communities for starters. I suggest you do some research, it’s ignorant sweeping statements like yours that start the brain washing process of these terrorists

BarbariansMum · 29/09/2019 21:28

At the end of the day either we say 15 year olds - all 15 year olds - are completely able to take responsibility for their lives, in which case adulthood should begin at 15. Or we stick with the current position that 15 is not an adult and, although they bear some responsibility for their actions, they do not have the same ability to make decisions as an adult and should not be held accountable in quite the same way.

Carrotcakeforbreakfast · 29/09/2019 21:30

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed

Apologies for commenting on your post again, but regardless of how she got to that point she is evil.
Not born evil but evil now and she isn't safe to have around.

James Bulgers killers were not born evil but I wouldn't want those two living next door either as they are now undeniably evil to their core.

If she had been groomed then yeah that's shit but I am pretty certain she went into this knowing full well what ISIS were about. We are talking about a 15 year old here, even a toddler would understand that hurting people is wrong.
There literally are no excuses and she needs to face the consequences.

Contraceptionismyfriend · 29/09/2019 21:33

@the age of criminal responsibility is 10.

BarbariansMum · 29/09/2019 21:35

10 year olds are not treated like adults by the courts. Neither are 15, 16 or even 17 year olds.

zzzzzzzz12345 · 29/09/2019 22:06

@OnlyFoolsnMothers what a silly comment. Back atcha with that research.

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 29/09/2019 22:08

zzzzzzzz12345 give proof of anything as barbaric as crimes of Isis!!! Like I said Western democracy is far from perfect/ but would you rather live under the rule of Islamic state?

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 29/09/2019 23:09

Carrotcakeforbreakfast what makes you think if she came back here she wouldn’t face consequences. There is no way she would just be able to get on with her life without being monitored and that would be after a long time under observation it just wouldn’t happen there are many reasons why - that she still had connections, that she will be seen as a martyr and held in high regard by some, that her life and those around her would be in danger are just a few

And if you label people as evil it takes away responsibility it implies they are unable to control their actions because they are evil that is not the case - choices are made what leads people to make such choices is complex and individual

And as for living next door - do you know those who live close to you. I am all to well aware how many people who have committed very violent crimes are living amongst us - with teams working to support their rehabilitation

MeganTheVegan · 30/09/2019 03:37

It’s such a shame that we can’t just do a swap. All those who hate the UK and support ISIS can go and live in Syria. And all the wonderful, intelligent, kind, hardworking Syrians can take their place in the UK.

Winterlife · 30/09/2019 03:47

Why do you assume kind, hardworking Syrians want to leave their country?

MeganTheVegan · 30/09/2019 05:21

@Winterlife, I did think that as I typed it, but things are hard in Syria right now. I have many Syrian friends, there and in other countries, and they just want the best for their children, like any good parents.

The scenario I put forward is entirely unworkable, it just frustrates me when people hate the country that houses them and provides them with so much opportunity, yet they resent it. Meanwhile others are suffering because of them.

Ibiza2015 · 30/09/2019 14:29

Could she take her husbands Nationality- but I guess a religious marriage doesn’t count does it?

No it doesn’t. They weren’t married within the jurisdiction of a recognised state so it’s up to the Dutch whether they choose to recognise the marriage or not and they won’t.

Ibiza2015 · 30/09/2019 14:39

She can't get out of the camp in Syria as she is being held there. Whether her English solicitor (whom we are paying) or her father who is in Bangladesh has applied for a Bangladeshi passport for her to which she has a right I do not know but I suspect they would feel that would make their English case harder

She can leave the camp but she has no other means of protection or support so she won’t.

I don’t know why people parrot things about ‘getting a passport’ when that is irrelevant. Passports are given if you hold nationality but a passport isn’t necessary to hold a citizenship.

Xenia · 30/09/2019 15:08

I just used passport as short hand. I didn't realise she was able to leave the camp - that is not the case for many of the women and men out there as they are locked up but I think she was moved to a different camp because of initial publicity so that may be the reason.

GladAllOver · 30/09/2019 17:35

I don’t know what’s on the internet for which grateful. All I know is that things which are just as bad - civilian killings, torture, starvation, waterboarding

You don't know what's on the Internet, but you still want to comment on it!

This girl and her friends DID know what was on the Internet. They were A level students who would be using it daily. They would know exactly what ISIS were doing before they went to help them.

As for your whataboutery, you have the effrontery to compare waterboarding of suspects with the destruction of whole communities, the men being slaughtered and the women and girls being taken off for sex slaves.

There is no excuse for what these girls and their ISIS friends did, and no justification for you to try to defend them.

Original poster
LeahSMS · 30/09/2019 17:48

What are shamima Begums options do we think? Stay where she is & eventually become a Syrian citizen but Is that possible? Or attempt to return to Bangladesh?

Is it possible she will wait until she’s over 21 then claim she cannot apply for residency in Bangladesh so therefore she must return to the uk?

OP posts:
Winterlife · 30/09/2019 17:50

Syria is still controlled by Assad. No way is he giving citizenship to foreign ISIS members.