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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Shamima Begum....where do you stand?

999 replies

LeahSMS · 26/09/2019 10:50

What are your thoughts?

AIBU to think she was only a child but unfortunately she’s now considered as a threat so therefore she will never return it’s not only about her safety but the people around her?

Tell me your thoughts

OP posts:
EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 29/09/2019 14:08

Do you know who is housed next to you ?

Or on your street.

She would be under teams working with her and managing her for a long time before she would just be allowed to live next door to anyone

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 29/09/2019 14:13

You may have been above being manipulated by ISIS - you may not have been their choice of victim and you may not have felt the feeling that some young Muslims of being disenfranchised

I doubt you would have been above being manipulated as adults we are not against some people (that’s why teams work with offenders of particular diagnosis)

HouseworkAvoider10 · 29/09/2019 14:22

She's a traitor.
No way should she be allowed back to the UK.

Bertieandernie · 29/09/2019 14:26

She can burn in hell for all I care! I’d rather shit in my hands and clap than have her back here the scummy cunt

Bishbosh84 · 29/09/2019 14:29

She doesn’t seem that sorry- her attitude is disgusting. She knew what she was doing and her family don’t seem much better either. I don’t believe we have the resources necessary to allow her to come back in a highly controlled and restricted way.

Bertieandernie · 29/09/2019 14:31

@littlemisssugarpuffs did you join isis though? No.. so no comparison Hmm

cinderellainyellakissedafella · 29/09/2019 14:55

Nobody cares about her. She can stay where she is. She is a danger to everybody in this country.

cinderellainyellakissedafella · 29/09/2019 14:56

She was given the opportunity to send her son back to Britain for medical help but wouldn't because they would not let her back either.

Not exactly a loving mum.

Bertieandernie · 29/09/2019 14:57

@cinderellainyellakissedafella if he actually existed in the first place

Puzzledandpissedoff · 29/09/2019 15:21

She was given the opportunity to send her son back to Britain for medical help but wouldn't because they would not let her back either

I confess I wasn't aware of that, but get ready to be told poor Shamima was already suffering so much trauma that parting her from her son would have been unthinkable

FWIW I'm not aware either of any proof that her "3 children" ever existed in the first place

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 29/09/2019 15:58

If that happened then that was a very cruel choice she made - if the decision was hers to make

Doesn’t take away the fact she was a child when she left this country

4dogs · 29/09/2019 16:36

I think every ISIS member should be tried in Syria or Iraq where they committed their crimes. I’d be more than happy for some foreign aid to be sent to help pay for the trials. I have no sympathy for any of them. They burned people alive, buried them alive, drowned them, beheaded them and engaged in sex slavery. Shamima would have known what was going on when she went to Syria, they were very good at publicising their activities, their brutality was not a secret.

GladAllOver · 29/09/2019 16:44

No. There is an absolute analogy - both were children, both were groomed. Neither really knew the consequences of their actions.

You are wrong.
The Rotherham girls were picked up, given alcohol and drugs and taken away to be abused. They did not know what they were getting into. They deserve every bit of help and support they can be given.

This girl and others like her knew exactly what she was doing in advance. She searched on line to learn about ISIS, could not have avoided the horrific videos that they had posted, and then voluntarily made her own way there. That is not being groomed.

When she got there she had children who, if ISIS had continued their vicious rule of terror, would have been brought up to be terrorists themselves.

She has still not made any effort of contrition for the evil that she assisted and took part in. She does not deserve any help from the country she abandoned.

BarbariansMum · 29/09/2019 17:29

This girl and others like her knew exactly what they were doing in advance

Please back with some evidence. I think you may be underestimating the cleverness of ISIS - it was very good at tailoring a message to what each convert wanted to hear. Very good at hoovering up angry and disillusioned young people who wanted to belong.

Or do you really think she went over there knowing she would bare 3 children, none of whom would live and end up stateless in a refugee camp?

zzzzzzzz12345 · 29/09/2019 17:35

@Gladallover, we don’t know the full extent of the girls’ grooming and what they were subjected to in terms of information, persuasion, cohesion etc. Nor do we know just what they knew in advance about the brutality of the regime. Other people have talked on here about at least one of the parents (amina abase’s) sympathising with extremism. I haven’t read about that but, were it true, it only adds to the severity of the grooming and how it came from people they trusted. It’s like a cult, kids believe the evil they are told in the name of religion and accept as normal the brutality that others find abhorrent. That is unpalatable as a truth, but it doesn’t make it untrue.

We know the horrific extent of the Rotherham girls’ situation only too well. We don’t know enough yet about these girls because they are dead or kettled in a camp or lost elsewhere in a country at war. We aren’t playing grooming top trumps. All grooming is wrong, all types of it expose young, impressionable, vulnerable people to abuse. It is absolutely right to compare the two sets of girls. One was on our doorstep, with the relevant failings now widely admitted. The other isn’t less relevant just because the fallout happened abroad whilst the failures were those of our own system which should have protected them.

zzzzzzzz12345 · 29/09/2019 17:36

*Coercion not cohesion

Dramaofallama · 29/09/2019 17:54

BarbariansMum

Tbf I think it is very doubtful that she didn't know what they was doing. ISIS weren't exactly shy with there tactics and used social media to almost 'show off' what they were capable off. Beheading, burning alive, slave auctions, crucifixions - they broadcasted it for the world to see! Even using it as recruitment. You have to remember this was a terrorist group widely condemned by the Al queda and taliban- that says alot.

I don't think she went there knowing she would end up in a refugee camp, or become stateless. I think she went there in hope isis would still remain in power, that they would still be top dog.

MemphisMum · 29/09/2019 18:00

@zzzzzzzz12345 why on earth are you comparing the Rotherham girls with these evil fools? there is no comparison

Carrotcakeforbreakfast · 29/09/2019 18:01

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed

Why can you not accept that she is just evil and that at 15 years old made these choices for herself?
She's said some pretty inflammatory stuff and the not sending her son home just concreted for me that she is someone who isn't deserving of coming back to the UK.

Also- while annoying when they slam their back gate my neighbours don't have any connection to ISIS I know that much.
My point to you was if you really feel for her so much, offer to house her
Because most sane people wouldn't knowingly choose her as a neighbour and the same can be said for sex offenders etc.

Carrotcakeforbreakfast · 29/09/2019 18:02

And to those comparing her with the rotherham girls...

Seriously have a fucking word with yourselves. To compare the 2 is laughable and unhinged.

Carrotcakeforbreakfast · 29/09/2019 18:06

Barbarian

No. She might not have known she was going to have 3 children who wouldn't survive as she cannot see into the future.

What she did know was exactly who ISIS were and that they were beheading people, burning them alive and God knows what else.
She is evil to the core and I hope she regrets HER choice every one of her waking moments.

zzzzzzzz12345 · 29/09/2019 18:37

@MemphisMum, I think i set out a pretty cogent argument, whether you agree with it or not. Where’s yours?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 29/09/2019 18:40

we don’t know the full extent of the girls’ grooming and what they were subjected to in terms of information, persuasion, cohesion etc

This is very true ... although at the same time we don't actually know if they were groomed at all, or whether the claim is just one more attempt to put the blame on someone else

zzzzzzzz12345 · 29/09/2019 18:42

And that’s what people said about Rotherham before they woke up.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 29/09/2019 18:43

Carrotcakeforbreakfast I posted before I don’t think people are evil or born evil

The might choose to act in a cruel way the reasons why are complex

I work in forensic mental health- have quite a good understanding of grooming and aware many young people are groomed in many different ways and end up manipulated and coerced into committing terrible crimes it happens all the time