Shamima Begum....where do you stand?

[LeahSMS]

What are your thoughts?

AIBU to think she was only a child but unfortunately she’s now considered as a threat so therefore she will never return it’s not only about her safety but the people around her?

Tell me your thoughts

It wasn’t her father who burned the Union Jack, it was the other ones father. Shamima’s Father lives in Bangladesh with his new wife, and he wasn’t around during Shamima’s childhood. She was raised by her mother and grandmother, her mother died of cancer and they kept it from shamima as much as they could.

She’s 15, her mother dies, her father has remarried, she’s feeling alone and confused. So a looney bin starts radicalising her and her friends online, she starts to feel some purpose in the world. I’m not saying what she did was right, it was wrong but she was vulnerable. She turns up in Syria, she is married off to some Dutch guy and starts having babies one after the other.

I feel she’s traumatised but she needs help, to de-radicalise her and she needs to know it’s wrong whilst she’s back in Britain. She will not change her ideology if we leave her to rot in Syria.

What’s the difference between her and that far right boy who was going to murder a MP? They are both terrorists, but one gets to de radicalise in Britain but the other one stays in Syria?

@AgeLikeWine with the greatest of respect, that's bollocks. She did not 'blow anyone up'. She is a victim of Isis too and the whipped up feelings against her are both misogynistic and racist in their origin I suspect.

She was above the age of criminal responsibility so she should be brought back to face justice and punishment in the UK. Stripping her citizenship is summary punishment which is, in my opinion, completely inconsistent with how we treat other serious crimes imho.

You can shout till you are blue in the face that she is a terrorist, BUT as a PP said, she is our responsibility. We have to deal with her. We can't palm her off to another country. She is a British citizen and she should be brought back to the UK and dealt with accordingly whether it's lifetime imprisonment or rehabilitation.

She should be bloody horsewhipped and slung back to the shithole she ran away to.
Murdering bitch.

Who did she murder?

@Hopoindown31
What crimes are you having her punished for exactly?

God this is depressing. Hope none of your kids ever make a serious error of judgement in their times of weakness.

I don’t buy the ‘poor 15 year old’ line. Her behaviour is so beyond the norm it can’t be explained away by having a sad childhood.

She should be brought back to the UK and dealt with here, as should all British terrotists. Not fair to lock her out and let someone else deal with our problem.

She’s manipulative and malicious.

if she's been stripped of her citizenship then she won't be back anyway

shes an adult now.....shown any remorse?

I haven't heard her say that she is sincerely sorry for supporting ISIS, and repudiates entirely the murders and rapes done while she was there

If she did that, and promised on her return to work with young Muslims to prevent radicalisation, I would agree with her returning.

Otherwise, no.

I don’t understand this whole ‘she was groomed’ bollux. I know most wont agree.

I’m sure a lot of people are familiar with the saying “if she/he jumped off a cliff, would you?”

Well, “if she/he joins a terrorist and murdering organisation, would you?”

No. Because we’re taught basic wrong from right. She had a choice, she chose wrong.

She joined a terrorist organisation, that makes her a terrorist supporter at the absolute least. Why on earth would you let somebody like that back into a country they have continually threatened?

You wouldn’t let a murder live in your house with your family just because they promised not to murder you.

Idiotic, she got the outcome she deserved and I can’t see how she expected anything other than that.

I was about to mention Jamie Bulger's killers too. What they did was inexcusable but they were much younger than Begum and had to face repercussions. So I'm not buying all the "she was a child" justifications. She knew what ISIS were capable of when she left to join them. She turned her back on the UK and had no problem with the brutal murder and atrocities carried out against innocent people.

She has shown no remorse other than to feel sorry for herself above all. It appears that she still believes in extremist ideology. I believe she still represents a danger to society.

And on a personal note, innocent muslims like those in my own family are being tarred with the same stick as her. I have family members who are being bullied at work by colleagues who use Begum and other terrorists as justification of their abuse and because some so called Muslims have used Islam to justify the horrendous things they have done, my family members feel unable to defend themselves. None of us want her back. She doesn't deserve to be called a British Citizen. Her actions have been shameful.

no remorse? then she's got an agenda

can we take that risk? we could bring her back, keep her in prison as long as sentencing allows for.....not sure what she would get

She ought to be kept out of Britain forever. We are far too soft on our borders anyway. How many would be terrorists have reached us as illegal immigrants sailing across the channel? We have been far too soft and are reaping the whirlwind.

She was a child who was groomed, and groomed in this country.

I don't believe it's moral or ethical to simply wash our hands of her.

Having said that, I don't think it's appropriate that she is allowed to move back to the UK without any sanctions for her behaviour.

Her initial interviews showed a shocking lack of remorse. Having seen the consequences of that she's changed her stance. Genuine or not, it's hard to say.

There is a lot of evidence that her behaviour as a member of ISIS went well beyond being a child bride. I don't think that can be minimised or ignored regardless of her age.

Overall my position is that she should be allowed back, but under very strict conditions.

Mandatory specialist counselling, a strict curfew on her activities both physical (tagging) and online. Any violation of such rules and she goes to prison.

Forgot a point I meant to make. I think if she was truly remorseful she would know it's not appropriate to return here and not put us in the position she has.

@DeRigueurMortis what about serving time in prison? counselling and tagging is no punishment really

where would she live? how would she support herself?

She doesn't deserve to be called a British Citizen. Her actions have been shameful.

Citizenship should not be tied to behaviour, even if it is abhorrent. That is a slippery slope that we should not be going down.

The three girls were all straight A students and there was a lot of evidence in 2015 that suggested they were not groomed/brainwashed/manipulated online but in fact actively embraced radicalism.

The only crime committed in the UK was theft of jewellery to fund travelling to Turkey. Her terrorist activities weren't carried out in this country. She should face justice where they happened.

For those saying she should be brought back here - who are you thinking will do this? You're asking one of my foreign office colleagues to travel to a war zone, in an ISIS camp and get her? Where half the camp would probably like to behead them as a representative of a Western Government.

Or we could send the military in and start WW3? Just who do you think should go and do this?

@AnneElliott yes thats a good point

is she able to make her own way out? no doubt that.....her family, can they go and collect her?

whats a solution here?

She grew up in a family which was militant and went to rallies supporting extremists.

She was then groomed online.

She made a horrific mistake. She's suffered greatly but so have other people. Her children have died, she's been raped and attacked repeatedly. She's also condoned death and destruction but afaik she hasn't actively taken part just said what her surroundings have taught her.

Come back and spend time in prison / YOI maybe?

Morally I think have her back. Safety wise I've no idea. You'd have to deprogram and rehabilitate extensively and in very controlled circumstances.

Children who are groomed and abused in other circumstances are rescued.

Memphis potentially time in prison yes - her actions whilst with ISIS should be investigated and if appropriate she should face a trial.