DP’s stonewalling is destroying me

[LetsSeeIfThisNameIsTaken]

(Apologies for posting this in AIBU, it gets the most traffic and I’m desperate to speak to someone about this)

Hi,

I’m looking for advice from any of you who have experienced stonewalling in your relationships/marriages, and whether or not you can tell me that there’s some miraculous light at the end of the tunnel for this ‘behaviour’ to correct or reverse itself.

Currently on day 3 of not speaking to DP since he stonewalled me during what should have been an easy going, simple, honest and open conversation on Monday night. What we spoke about isn’t relevant, as he’ll stonewall me over literally anything remotely serious or important, or about us, or about me being upset, angry or annoyed over something.

I opened the conversation as placidly and nicely as possible. It really should have been something that was over and done with and dealt with within 5 minutes, but classic DP reverted to his usual tactics of shutting down, ignoring me, not even looking at me, just staring at his phone and channel flicking and not saying a word in response, acting as though as I wasn't even in the room with him, although he could blatantly hear me becoming more upset thanks to him blanking me. As a result of him doing this (and this happens every time he treats me this way), I grow more irate and start to lose my temper as I fight to be heard and understood, and battle for his attention, so although I start conversations by treading on eggshells and speaking as gingerly as possible, I end up losing sight of the original problem as his stonewalling takes a hold of me and I become incredibly pissed off.

I woke up on Tuesday morning, following nothing been resolved or put to bed, and sent him a message about it. A tactic he claims he finds easier to deal with, though he doesn’t respond to my messages either, and doesn’t bring it up when he gets home, so it’s just another way of him avoiding me and the issues at hand.

I basically reiterated the original issue, and once again, for the thousandth time, told him that the way he treats me during discussions isn’t ok. He ignored my message, came home, nothing was said about it, we spent Tuesday evening in silence and he got up and went to work yesterday, came home, and again, nothing said. I ended up going to him last night and asking him if he was planning on apologising to me and explaining himself, to which he just shook his head, all whilst not looking at me. I asked him if his respect for me is that low, that he truly thinks ignoring me is acceptable, and he told me to ‘leave him alone’ as he was going to bed soon. He’s gone to work this morning without saying goodbye, and I suspect this evening will be a repeat of the last two nights.

DP went for counselling regarding his awful communication problems last year. It was via the NHS therapy for you services, so only a 6 course session, but he claimed it gave him some tools to help him open up, see things from my perspective and not shut down, though evidently it didn’t do a damn thing, as we’re still stuck in the same rut of him ignoring me, the avoidance, belittling me and him manipulating conversations simply by saying nothing at all.

I just don’t know what to do anymore. We’ve been together for 5 years, and for the first few years, I tried so hard to understand that ‘serious’ conversations must just be difficult for him. So as such, I’ve tried all kinds of different avenues to speak to him. I’ve tried the quiet and gentle approach, I’ve tried having screaming matches, I’ve tried writing letters, leaving them for him then taking myself out so he can read about the issue in peace then discuss it calmly when I returned, I’ve tried sending messages while he was at work so he can read them on the train journey home then talk about it later that evening, I’ve tried telling him to go for a walk mid conversation to get some air, then we’ll speak in half an hour, I’ve tried giving him days until I’ve brought it up again. Nothing works. It’s like as long I never voice my opinions, express any concerns, never talk about anything of any importance, then things are completely fine between us. But the moment I try and open up, I’m instantly shut down and it’s breaking my heart because I don’t know what else I can do, or for how much longer I can expect him to act this way before he wakes up and realises that this isn’t how a responsible, respectful, loving partner should be treating their spouse.

I don’t know if it’s emotional abuse, but I do know that I feel so disrespected, unheard, like my thoughts, opinions, doubts or concerns hold no importance to him, I just feel like I’m not being taken seriously, and frankly like I’m a piece of shit on the bottom of his shoe.

Apart from the stonewalling, he’s generally a good person, and I think that’s why I’ve stuck around so long. But I feel as though I’m reaching my breaking point and that his shitty communication issues are starting to impact my mental health because nothing is ever resolved, and the 1% of times that things are resolved, it's entirely on his terms.

Do chronic stonewallers ever change? Or is it something that’s so deep rooted that they physically can’t change their ways, even if they wanted to?

What you're saying here is "to be a good partner to anyone, one must acknowledge and process conflict together to come to a mutually satisfactory resolution".

What I'm suggesting you think is "to be a good partner to me, one must acknowledge and process conflict with me so we come to a satisfactory resolution".

You've seen yourself that he doesn't respond to anything you do to address the situation. He's fine with living like this. You're not. There really is no option but to end it. I do get that you can't get ready for that overnight. Can you go and stay with a friend for a few days?

I have ptsd plus an "interesting" childhood and I find somethings, especially emotive things virtually impossible to talk about. There have been points where dh could have written this about me. It drives him up the wall how I can go to bed without resolving things and just ignore him but it's a pattern of behaviour I was exposed to from early childhood.

What has worked for us and we'll have been together 20 years soon is the following:

A set night to discuss things where we will sit down and talk about whatever needs talking about. Things are raised in advance (we have a chalk board in the home office) and nothing is ever thrown on either party at short/no notice. He will not yell and I will talk. It's still very hard for me and probably him but we are slowly managing to communicate better.

Therapy and lots of it. I've had a 5 month block and a 18 month block on the NHS. For me in part, I was just copying my parents relationship. My mum was very emotionally volatile and dad would respond by ignoring her and given that she treated me like my dad, I just copied him. That plus added trauma meant that by the time I reached adulthood, I didn't have the tools to discuss things I found problematic or upsetting without turning into my mum and it seemed that shutting down was safer than letting go. It took therapy to make me see that though.

However I wanted to fix my issues. I didn't want our children to grow up with the same issues that I "inherited" from my parents and upbringing. If he doesn't want to change, then he won't.

@ChilledBee this isn't how DP resolves all issues though. He doesn't turn his back and ignore everything, only me and our issues.
He's in a managerial role and certainly doesn't behave this way at work, I also know he's been on nights out and has been caught in the middle on conflicts with friends, which he's swiftly tried to resolve through chat.

OP-It really sounds as though he has no desire to change this behaviour, and it is making you utterly miserable. I don't see how there is any hope of salvaging this. He doesn't want to work on his issues or the relationship I know that sucks and second the suggestion of going to stay elsewhere for a few days if that is possible for you. Some time away ti reflect might help.

You shouldn’t go to therapy with an abuser. But if he’s not trying to be abusive but really struggling then couples therapy seems to only viable option.

And if he refuses? Then OP, I’m sorry but I think it’s time to leave. Refuses to go to counselling/therapy when needed is a relationship dealbreaker for me,

OK so he just does it to you, obviously as a control method then.

My wise old nan once told me that if a man is disrespectful to you before you are married then don't expect them to magically be any different.

I was in a relationship with an emotionally stunted man (boy) at the time and spend much more of my time dealing with hi bi-polar tendencies than a young 20 something should.

She really opened my eyes up and made me realise that if I don't value myself enough not to put up with his crap then he wasn't going to either.

Best thing I ever did was walk away from that man!

You are not emotionally equal. You obviously have a very practical grasp on how to deal with conflict in a relationship and you have bent over backwards to find a way to deal with him. But the respect is only going one way. You deserve better :)

The thing is, the decisions you have to make, and the discussions you're going to have, will in all likelihood get more serious more frequently as your relationship progresses.
Obviously you might not get married, buy a house together, have children etc etc, but if you do any of these will you be able to talk to him about important issues when he stonewalls you over giving a bit of information about plans, or taking the bins out?

"I know I should leave and I do know I'm worth so much more. I'm a shell of the person I was when he met me, but for some reason, I just can't find the strength to leave."
Why are you a shell of your former self? Because his behaviour towards you has made you so. Why don't you have the strength to leave? Because you are a shell of your former self.

Now join that together. You cannot leave because he has behaved in a way to remove your strength, your fortitude.

Have you considered that this is the actual object of his behaviour (stopping you from leaving him) rather than just a side-effect?

"The 'what if' constantly haunts me. What if, one day, he'll be better? What if he eventually learns to appropriate way to communicate? What if I just hold on for a bit longer? Will I start being treated better then?"
Why will he get better? He's pretty happy with how things are. He keeps you in a state of weakness so he can be sure you won't leave. You service all his domestic and sexual wants as part of your walking-on-eggshells trying to head off his next round of stonewalling. Seriously - why would he change? You're assuming he doesn't like his life this way - have you considered that maybe he likes it just fine?

Have you ever heard of the 'sunken costs theory'? It started in finance, but someone spotted it applies to relationships too, and it came to mind with your "What if, one day ...". Basically, with sunken costs, people think 'I've put so much into this investment/relationship to date, I'll lose it all if I walk away now'. But the point is, you've already lost it - the wise thing is not to throw good money after bad (for the poor investment) or good years after bad (for a bad relationship). You have sunk five years in him - I get that you don't want to think it was for nothing. But here's the thing - those years are gone, and can never be replaced with good years. How much of your life are you willing to sacrifice because of 'what if'?

Two things I've taken to heart from other, wiser, mumsnetters:

1. When someone tells you who they are, believe them the first time.

He's been stonewalling you from the start. You can't do anything about not believing him then, but surely he's demonstrated who he is enough times by now for you to believe that this IS who he is?

1. If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always got.

You think you've been trying different ways to make this work, and in one sense, yes, you have, you've all but jumped through hoops to make this work. But the constant - the thing you have always done - is stayed. This is the thing you need to change to get a different result. You need to not stay. You need to leave. You think you're a shell now? I think he could hollow you out even more. You've still got the wherewithall to appeal for help here. I think he could grind that out of you too .

"The 'what if' constantly haunts me. What if, one day, he'll be better? What if he eventually learns to appropriate way to communicate? What if I just hold on for a bit longer? Will I start being treated better then? "

That is called the sunk costs fallacy. Truth?

HE WILL NEVER, EVER CHANGE. This is a CONTROL issue.

My ex used to say to me 'you didn't say it in the right way'. So as well as all the things you have mentioned, I would dance around trying to find the magic words to get through.

@LetsSeeIfThisNameIsTaken? I think this comes from Lundy Bancroft, but:

if you have to explain normal human behaviour to a person? You are with an abuser and you are absolutely wasting your time.

PS my ex is now on to his 4th soulmate. Guess what! They all hit the same problem!

Why don't you talk to me
[Lying down and screaming to try and get through]

THEY NEVER CHANGE. IT IS NOT YOU. SANITY AND SERENITY LIES THAT WAY >>>>>>

@LetsSeeIfThisNameIsTaken

But I'd assume his only romantic relationship is with you. I interact with my siblings differently to my partner because we have different roles and relationships. Things my brother might find difficult about me aren't relevant to my husband because we don't interact in that way and vice versa.

This relationship sounds totally wrong for you and in all honesty,I agree you should leave. However, I think it is unwise to leave with the idea that anyone "good" would respond differently and reframe it as "anyone good for me" would respond differently.

The other thing you might want to do is look at how those other people interact with him which means he can respond in a more desirable fashion. If you really want the relationship to continue BUT you need him to act like he acts with other people, then maybe you need to adopt some of those strategies to get that outcome. Again, you're not obliged to do this. You don't have to change to make him happy (nor does he have ti change for you) but that might be the way you get what you actually want although it means you adapting first.

www.goodtherapy.org/blog/psychpedia/stonewalling

www.psychologytoday.com/za/blog/anger-in-the-age-entitlement/201212/how-ruin-perfectly-good-relationship-0

www.betterhelp.com/advice/relations/is-stonewalling-a-form-of-abuse/

@battytwatty or whatever your user name is.

I understand that it is popular to deem anyone who won't do things EXACTLY the way you think they should be done as abusive but it isn't healthy. Some people need different things and that's okay. You just might not be able to be part of a happy, healthy couple with that person.

Nagging and harassing someone into being who they want them to be can be abusive in itself. Sometimes you have to accept that this is who they are and ask yourself whether it is working for you. If not, you walk away. Same goes for him but he isn't writing the thread.

You say he doesn't do it with anyone else.

Just you.

That isn't neurosis. That is control.

I would give him a clear, calm ultimatum. As in, I am deadly serious.

His choice (care enough about you to discover his tongue, or continue as is) will tell you what to do next.

"He's in a managerial role and certainly doesn't behave this way at work, I also know he's been on nights out and has been caught in the middle on conflicts with friends, which he's swiftly tried to resolve through chat."

Ooh, I was still typing when you posted this @LetsSeeIfThisNameIsTaken. This makes it crystal clear - this is a behaviour he CHOOSES to use specifically for you and you only. It is a means of CONTROL. If he can behave differently with other people, it is not innate, it is a CHOICE. And he chooses it because it works, it keeps you under his control.

For the love of sanity, get out of there. Leave. And don't look back.

I have tried changing my tactics and strategies. I've outright asked him in the past exactly what it is that I can do to make discussions easier for him. He told me to send him messages about stuff and he'll respond that way too.

Well I did just that. Several times. And each and every time he just doesn't respond, because it turns out a message is just as easy to ignore as I am, when I'm sitting in the same room as him.

He just has no desire to ever sort things out with me. No matter how far backwards I bend to accommodate him.

And in that last post of yours LetsSeeIfThisNameIsTaken it’s surely clear to you that this relationship is not working for you and it’s time to say goodbye.

Whether you want to label the relationship as abusive or not, it’s not working for you.

You can change tack, bend over backwards for him, etc. but it will never change. He's abusive to you. If you don't leave, then you stay in an abusive relationship.

Yes it’s emotional abuse.

No it won’t get better.

Choose now if you want this to be your life’s story or not.

@LetsSeeIfThisNameIsTaken

I think you're at too much of an impasse but if the messages are novels rather than concise text then it probably isn't much different to him than you speaking to him about it.

Why are you so reluctant to acknowledge this is futile and split up? I mean I know you love him but surely you can see this isn't sustainable and you must both be miserable. Imagine if the way you end up interacting with him makes him feel as negatively as you feel about his silent treatment? Essentially it becomes a choice between appeasing your need to process (thus he is miserable), or his need to shut down (and you're miserable). That's no way for either of you to live.

You are being emotionally abused.

He is treating you appallingly.

He is doing so because he wants to, to break you down and gain more traction and control. He is getting something out of this or he would not be doing it.

Good partners adapt their behaviour and change when distress is caused. He is not doing that.

Run for the hills before he is dh or god forbid, df to your DC.

You sound lovely you know. Invest all that lovely emotional energy and warmth in someone who reciprocates.

And read read read the Lundy Bancroft why does he do that book. And don't blame yourself. And dump him and don't look back

THIS

""The 'what if' constantly haunts me. What if, one day, he'll be better? What if he eventually learns to appropriate way to communicate? What if I just hold on for a bit longer? Will I start being treated better then?"
Why will he get better? He's pretty happy with how things are. He keeps you in a state of weakness so he can be sure you won't leave. You service all his domestic and sexual wants as part of your walking-on-eggshells trying to head off his next round of stonewalling. Seriously - why would he change? You're assuming he doesn't like his life this way - have you considered that maybe he likes it just fine?"