16 year old son is mean.

[Fabulousdahlink]

Birthdays christmas etc really important in our home. Son has money from savings and has a pt job. Failed to buy his sister a xmas gift, for my 50th only offered to buy the card whilst expecting 14yr sister to buy the gifts, now discovered he has not bought or paid glft or her birthday on sunday. Fornat is thr same each time...when asked if he has planned money for a gift says yes, sometimes lies and says he has ordered a gift ' but it hasnt arrived' or just plain expects the adults in his life me , dad, granny or aunty to buy a last minute gift so the person doesnt get left out...but he doesnt pay for shop for or pay back the money for the gift.

What do I do ? He knows it is not ok to treat people this way...but it is sfill a pattern. He's been told directly by the adults in his life its not ok. A bar of choc and 59p card from home bargains would be acceltable. He just doesnt give despite always being treated well on his own special days. We are supposed to be going out for dinner for his sisters birthday and I'm so disguted with him I dont want to go. However, that lunishes my daughter and will also hurt her feelings again if I tell her the reason why.

We've told him and given him options ( tell us and you can pay back the cost of the gift etc) but he still persists in not being responsible for his own gift giving to direct family ( sister, mum and dad)
Advice needed please mumsnetters.

Good on you for addressing it.

Personally I'd give up the talking.

Let him decide on his own gift giving and others decide how they want to reciprocate on his birthday etc.

What I'd be telling your DD is that if he doesn't contribute to gifts she has a right to give them just from her.

Gift giving and receiving is very personal.

Why don't you do a day out the three of you at the start of December for Christmas shopping. You all hang out together to choose gifts for grandparents etc, then split off for an hour for gifts for one another, then meet for pizza express afterwards?
Might make it more fun for him as you're all in it together, and then he might actually enjoy doing it? If he doesn't, I think you just have to accept it might not be his thing right now.

I hate gift buying i find it stressful i am a bit of a people pleaser and overthink what they'd like and worry that buying a cheap unwanted gift would be worse than nothing....but fgs hes only 16 give him some slack...take him gift shopping with you, some men still have zero idea what to buy in their 40s+.

OP I think your approach is wise and I agree it's an important conversation to have with him. You could use the '5 Love Languages' to establish his real feelings about gift giving. (There's a book and websites about it with multiple choice questions to determine which 'love language' is most important to you). Some people don't value gifts. They value time or touch or acts of service or affirmations.

I can understand both sides here. I think it's fairly typical behaviour for a teenager, but as his mother you are likely thinking further on down the line and to what kind of person he will become. My DS struggles sometimes with understanding this kind of thing and I get a bit mad and disappointed in the moment, then I think how best to teach him. He responds well to describing a scenario where the tables are turned, getting him to tell me how he would feel in that instance. Occasionally there's a dawning realisation at that point and we make at least a little bit of progress.
I also used to spend my pocket money on my brothers for gifts and it was reciprocated by one but not the others until at least their mid twenties, but they got there in the end. Hopefully your DS will get to showing people his love and appreciation in whatever way he chooses soon.

I disagree with quite a few of the posters on here.
Meanness is a terrible quality and I think it needs to be addressed for his own sake as it will make it incredibly hard to meet a partner/ keep friends long term.
Is he mean with his time/kindness or is it just money?

“My teens give gifts to each other but they decide on a budget beforehand. For example my Ds bought 5 bags of Maltesers for £5 for his sister's birthday (her favourite) and she returned the favour with £5 of gum on his birthday (he likes chewing gum) They realise that they could agree to not buy for each other but they prefer getting an extra gift.”

This is very cute. I hope my children are as close and care about each other this much when they’re teens.

However generally I agree that I wouldn’t expect a 16 YO to be buying presents for anyone expect parents (and then I think I’d expect the other parent to help out with it) he’ll be earning bugger all at a part time job, he shouldn’t be spending a chunk of it on everyone else (what about Xmas!? 2/3 months worth of wages on one day! How demoralising)
I know people say just buy a bat of chocolate or a £1 box of chocolates but what is the point in that? Imo there isn’t any point in a present unless it’s going to be decent.

My eldest son used to be terrible until he was about 23 years. He would grudgingly give his sister a £10 voucher and send her card he found in cupboard as we keep spares. Now he tells his sister to get herself something she wants and he will pay her back, which he does without complaining. She does not care as she says she gets a nicer present than he would choose her. He buys me flowers which is my favourite and often a DVD his sister tells him I would like or else asks his sister to choose me something. I pretend I don't know his sister chose it. We always go out for a family meal which we pay for for all of our birthdays. I would not force him to give a nice gift but would tell him it hurts if you think your own brother, son does not care enough to get you something nice if they can afford it. When I was ill my son came home from work with flowers for me something he would never have done when he was younger. I think he just grew up. Give your son time to grow up.

My mum "forgot" ours if we forgot hers. Only happened once.

Usersouthcoast made a v good suggestion - please try that.
As it happens, my ds (wealthy) always TOLD me what she wanted (gold jewellery/expensive perfume etc) but gave me (if anything) something obviously cheap (&unwanted/unsuitable). I have gifted her DC's designer tops etc (as 'requested') but when my DC turned 21, my ds sent a £2 scratch card. (Didn't win BTW)! I have given up.

Don't invite him to anything and stop looking after him.
Certainly never treat him again
Stop buying gifts for him to give

Don't invite him to anything and stop looking after him.
Certainly never treat him again
Stop buying gifts for him to give

Unbelievable

YANBU.
You're asking him how much he values birthdays as a whole.
Either he believes birthdays/Christmas etc are important events that should be celebrated with the exchanging of gifts or he doesn't and you should agree with him that he doesn't have to participate.

But he can't place you and the family in one category and himself in another.

He can't say that birthdays are rubbish and he doesn't have to buy people gifts but then say his birthday is special and people should buy him gifts. It's all or nothing. You're just putting the ball in his court.