16 year old son is mean.

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Birthdays christmas etc really important in our home. Son has money from savings and has a pt job. Failed to buy his sister a xmas gift, for my 50th only offered to buy the card whilst expecting 14yr sister to buy the gifts, now discovered he has not bought or paid glft or her birthday on sunday. Fornat is thr same each time...when asked if he has planned money for a gift says yes, sometimes lies and says he has ordered a gift ' but it hasnt arrived' or just plain expects the adults in his life me , dad, granny or aunty to buy a last minute gift so the person doesnt get left out...but he doesnt pay for shop for or pay back the money for the gift.

What do I do ? He knows it is not ok to treat people this way...but it is sfill a pattern. He's been told directly by the adults in his life its not ok. A bar of choc and 59p card from home bargains would be acceltable. He just doesnt give despite always being treated well on his own special days. We are supposed to be going out for dinner for his sisters birthday and I'm so disguted with him I dont want to go. However, that lunishes my daughter and will also hurt her feelings again if I tell her the reason why.

We've told him and given him options ( tell us and you can pay back the cost of the gift etc) but he still persists in not being responsible for his own gift giving to direct family ( sister, mum and dad)
Advice needed please mumsnetters.

I wouldn't expect a child to buy presents for anyone TBH.

So how do you go from a child not being expected to buy presents to being an adult and suddenly being expected to? What happens if they don't get this memo? Surely 16 is the age when they can put some thought into buying something inexpensive.
IMO it's a gradual process where mum and dad "help" then gradually leading on to being responsible for doing it themselves with a tiny budget, so by the time they are adults and working they are ready for proper adulating and present buying..

I wouldn’t expect a 16 year old to have present buying down to a fine art. I remember as a student being so stressed by the pressure I put on myself to buy everyone in the family a Christmas present in a crap budget - I would have loved if no one bought me a present so that I didn’t have to go through the reciprocal stress.

Luckily, I can now afford Christmas and birthdays, it’s more of a pleasure. However, my sister is a single parent and I feel awful receiving presents from her because I know Christmas is a stressful time for her. She would never not give a gift because she feels the social pressure.

My twin bro never buys any of us gifts. No one really cares, it’s just ‘him’. We still love him. He’d give you the coat off his back if you needed it, He spoils his wife because she insists. Suits them.

We really shouldn’t have to show love through giving and receiving. My DH and I never buy birthday or Christmas gifts. We do lots of lovely things together, and save to buy things we really want. We don’t need to waste our money on token gifts for each other.

It's the bit where his sister will 'still spend what little she has on him when he asks her too' that is shocking. To ask for gifts from someone he can't be arsed to get something for is selfish and entitled, and I would be having serious words with him about that. I also think it's time he had the experience of people not making an effort for him. He could be flat sharing at university in two years, and his house mates won't be impressed by an all take no give attitude.

Tell him that as he doesn't seem to be comfortable giving gifts at birthdays and Christmas, you'll make it easier for him and do it his way from now on. No-one will buy anyone presents any more, rather they'll spend the money they'd have spent on presents for others buying themselves things they've always wanted but couldn't afford.

I suspect you wouldn't actually have to do this, but win - win if he learns from it.

Teenagers are inherently selfish they can’t help it. As another poster said, don’t write him off, it’s very early days. I think that that letting him harvest the consequences of his actions is not a bad thing because tbh they do not listen to their parents. It’s almost a point of law to ignore them!!! I’m. Going through this wit my 16 year old - he simply will not listen or accept advice so I have had to (painfully and against what I would want) let him learn the consequences. Of his actions. Feeling your pain OP

Holy shit. Apols for the full stops etc in that post

Teenagers are inherently selfish they can’t help it.

Except that his 14 year old sister - also a teenager - doesn't seem to be. Making excuses for the selfish ones doesn't help, and they're not all the same.

Teenagers are inherently selfish they can’t help it

WTF? Some teenagers might be self-centred in some ways, but this is not general, and they can help it.

This boy has grown up in a family where giving gifts is the norm, and is a demonstration of love and caring for each other. Yet he's prepared to benefit from that himself, and not reciprocate. That's bound to be hurtful to this family. He should not be allowed to ask his sister to buy him things, but not buy for her.

In our family, birthdays, Christmas and 'saw this and thought of you' gifts are important. It's not about possessions, it's about thinking of others and doing things to make them happy. Sometimes gifts are something that the other has made.

OP, has anyone ever asked your DS why he doesn't give gifts? Have you talked about how people feel when he doesn't show them the care and generosity they show him? Maybe there IS a reason like finding it stressful, in which case you could help him find strategies.
Is he empathetic generally, but just not in this case? Does he do kind things for people?

Don't buy gifts for him for birthday/Easter/Christmas if he is not going to buy for others....let him experience what not being given a gift on A special day feels like, then maybe it will sink in and he will realise he has made others feel that way and might change his behaviour...

Or you could just get the family to agree to only buy for who bought them that year ...meaning if he hasn't bought for someone during the year, he doesn't receive gifts from those people....he has to learn to consider others and not be grabby

Thanks Mumsnetters for every contribution. The red rage has subsided and as usual there is a back story. ( I've always been a thoughtful gift giver, ex could hardly bother. Never had a birthday gift on my birthday day in 25 years always amazon always ordered day before. One year I had his grandads medals reribboned and mounted at considerable expense for his birthay 12 days before my own birthday. He was thrilled. I got a folding shovel bought from the garage. )
I know my son is not my ex, but have always made birthdays and xmas special with thoughtful but not costly gifts. Made the day special with picnic tea, cake favourite meal...
Since both kids have had p/t jobs( 2 years now) and an allowance from dad its been the rule they find a small gift to give with their own money..a charity shop or car boot bargain- a candle for me, an LP from a charity shop for granny etc. Something for each other. Not extended family.
Until then as children, gifts were not expected. Its part of transitioning from reliant child to independent teen, becoming responsible for their own money, and developing social skills and relationship skills.
It has been a supported process with support in place so that the skill could be developed- learnt.

After dd birthday has passed I will sit down with ds and have an honest conversation- calmly- and find out why he persists in this behaviour. If he genuinely doesnt care about gift giving or receiving...christmas will be a breeze. I think he wants the fuss and gifts but I"m prepared to go 'no gift' if thats what he wants to do...
I dont give to receive...I give because I want the person to know that I'm marking their special day with a token gift. However- both teens need to understand the joy a gift brings- but also how no recognition of a special day can feel and how that can be percieved . I'd be short changing them as a parent if I didnt.

I'm raising a boy to be a man. He needs guidance- he has kind males in his life as well as his rather odd dad. But sometimes the more subtle lessons get missed and his behaviour comes off as thoughtless or on this occasion mean. He makes mistakes and occasionally learns from them. Thats totally normal teenage behaviour. BUT sometimes as a mum you need to speak plainly when 'they missed that memo' about important social interactions so they learn.

Ok op, but uou need to accept that many people do not expect their teenagers to buy them gifts, and make their chidrens special days special because they want to. They would not dream of threatening to not buy Xmas or birthday gifts if they didn't get something in return, and that marking a birthday is often a card and a thoughtful wish.

It doesn't matter your personal history, and you can threaten your kids in whatever way you wish, but threatening you will do the same back is no way to teach someone the joy of gift giving.

@Bluntness100 exactly!

I don’t value my friends and family based on the gifts they give me. I value them on how they treat me the rest of the year.

I would certainly never want a gift given to me under sufferance or worry that they’d spent money they could ill afford on me.

Gift giving should be fun and enjoyable.

MyBrother is in his 60s and is the same, he doesnt even buy his wife a card or present. Just leave him too it, dont make a fuss on his Birthday

A Sixty year old man is hardly the same as a sixteen year old. And the fact he is behaving like a pretty normal teen doesn't mean he won't buy gifts for the rest of his life.

Ok op, but uou need to accept that many people do not expect their teenagers to buy them gifts, and make their chidrens special days special because they want to

The OP has not suggested other people shouldn't do things their own way. The point is in their family they do mark birthdays and 16 is more than old enough to remember to at least buy a birthday card.

Particularly a 16 yr old who has a list of items he wants himself for his own occasions.

As I said upthread - 16 not 6.

And the fact he is behaving like a pretty normal teen doesn't mean he won't buy gifts for the rest of his life.

Depends on what you call normal. None of mine at 16 would have ignored a family birthday. Can't think of nieces or nephews behaving like that either. When smaller they used to like making cards and as they grew and had money of their own they took pleasure in finding small things to give themselves.

And yes, when they were just on pocket money there was some parental subsidising involved but at 16 with a regular job they generally wanted to do their own thing.

What none of them considered acceptable was to take the benefits on their own occasions and ignore their siblings occasions.

My brother was always like this and still is as an adult.
But he makes the effort to visit and help out with jobs etc.
There is actually more to life than "presents" and actually it turned out he wasn't that fussed about being given presents either. This eventually turned into the Martin Lewis no unnecessary presents Christmas. Been great ever since. No one takes offence - no one needs Unnessary crap in their house for the sake of it.

Depends on what you call normal. None of mine at 16 would have ignored a family birthday.

Quite.

My teens give gifts to each other but they decide on a budget beforehand. For example my Ds bought 5 bags of Maltesers for £5 for his sister's birthday (her favourite) and she returned the favour with £5 of gum on his birthday (he likes chewing gum) They realise that they could agree to not buy for each other but they prefer getting an extra gift. While people make a good point about unnecessary gifting, being a sibling means you know what will go down well and it's a good feeling to know that your sibling had put in the effort to buy and wrap a gift- even if they walk past a supermarket every day so the actual shopping takes hardly any time.

They would not dream of threatening to not buy Xmas or birthday gifts if they didn't get something in return, and that marking a birthday is often a card and a thoughtful wish.

But in the DS's case, there is no thought at all except for himself. That's the difference. If he was prepared to receive a card and a thoughtful wish himself, fine. But HIS birthday is important to him and he's not backwards at telling his sister what he wants her to buy him. If he left it up to her whether she got him a gift or not, then fair enough. But he doesn't.

His lack of empathy might be down to age and hormones, or it might be that he's mean and entitled. But allowing this situation to continue teaches him that it's OK, he'll still get everything he wants without doing anything in return, and that's not a nice trait in anyone.

I agree op.

I suspect that some of these teenagers who aren't expected to make an effort now will grow up and start giving presents of their own accord, but many won't - thus perpetuating the leaving it to others to sort out and the many excuses being made for them for being unthoughtful, yet entitled.

You're raising a CF here. Call him out on it. Tell him no one likes a CK.

I suspect that some of these teenagers who aren't expected to make an effort now will grow up and start giving presents of their own accord, but many won't - thus perpetuating the leaving it to others to sort out and the many excuses being made for them for being unthoughtful

..and most of those forced to give gifts with "a rule" will also stop when there isn't someone there controlling them, as it was never genuine.

Guilt tripping/punishing a child with no xmas from his parents for not giving a sibling a birthday gift is not the way to go.

Presents are important to the op but she cannot make her ds feel the same importance. He is an individual, maybe he will like giving gifts in the future, maybe not.

transitioning from reliant child to independent teen is about guiding them and letting them make their own decisions and dealing with the consequences, not controlling.

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