To be jealous of men :S

[HelpImEnvious]

I’m so jealous of men.. including DH..

They don’t have as much society pressure to be nice and not be themselves

They don’t have so much biological changes just to become a parent

They don’t have to go through labour or pregnancy or the full time job of breastfeeding.. so their bodies don’t take a physical toll and don’t age

Their Careers and lives don’t take s hit when they deliver a baby

They don’t suffer mum guilt if they decide to pursue their lives.. because to them that’s normal.

To them age is grace and there is no biological clock... very carefree

I resent DH sleeping through the night while I have to get up breastfeed..

I love being a mum, always wanted to be, and want more kids, but It comes at such a huge cost that doesn’t seem to affect him as much.

I find myself snapping a lot because I feel annoyed at the changes I had to my social life and my career and my sleep and my overall life. Even though it was my choice.. because I feel it’s what best for my child. But I can’t help feel resentment :S

@HelpimEnvious are you me?! I literally text my friend this exact thing this morning!

I'm so glad I have a son so he has an easier life because I really don't see men and women ever being equals.

@MoodyBitch

Because it is.
We go grey, get wrinkles and saggy chebs.
Men go grey, get wrinkles and saggy spuds.

Women also get: vaginal dryness making sex difficult or impossible, hormone-induced mood swings resulting in depression and anxiety, night sweats, migraines, bloating, heavy periods, bladder issues, painful boobs, cramping, insomnia....

Absolute nonsense to pretend that middle age for women is no different to middle age for men.

Re the toys. There is balance which can be achieved. I had barbies. I also had tool kit, science kits, garage with cars and pink dresses and boys clothes etc.
My friend loved playing with dolls. Sadly he was a boy so he never got any because his family was pretty much "No. You are a boy" I used to let him play with mine.
I think it's up to the parents. If parents say "X's birthday are coming up. We want her/him to enjoy all kinds of toys so he/she will welcome dolls, tools, science kits, kid's kitchen. Just a bit of everything. Thank you!" they are leading a positive change. People need to be proactive in this. Society at whole will never change unless people start changing their immediate surroundings.

And to the housework... Women are often creators of their own hell. We see it here all the time. It more or less goes "I am so fed up of doing everything. Like he tried, but didn't do it how I like it so I had to redo it and won't let him do it again"🤷
My mum used to do this...
"No one helps me"
"What can I help with?"
"Nothing. You will do it wrong"
...

I'm going through this at the minute. We have our much wanted second child and I find myself thinking that my life has completely changed since his arrival, but dh's life not so much.
I find it really hard being off work on maternity and think I may have pnd. Meanwhile dh goes off to work as usual and there has been no changes to his sleep pattern, body or mental health

As my username suggests I'm a bloke with two kids. Let me respond to each of your points in turn:

"They don’t have as much society pressure to be nice and not be themselves"

How would you know? Society puts pressure on everyone. Unless you've been reincarnated and can remember your previous life as a man, this statement is nonsense.

"They don’t have so much biological changes just to become a parent"

This is true but that's just biology. If you don't want to give birth you don't have to, you could always adopt. It's your choice. There's nothing that can be done about this - it's just life.

"They don’t have to go through labour or pregnancy or the full time job of breastfeeding.. so their bodies don’t take a physical toll and don’t age"

I wish it were true that I don't age..... My eyesight is now knackered and my joints ache every time I wake up. Note that Female life expectancy is FOUR YEARS LONGER than for men.

"Their Careers and lives don’t take s hit when they deliver a baby"

I wanted to take more time off but I was only allowed 2 weeks paid leave while my wife was entitled to 6 months on full pay and 3 months half-pay. Personally I couldn't give a toss about my career, I work to live not live to work. My family means more to me than my job, it would have been nice to get the opportunity to spend more time my kids when they were young but that wasn't an option for me. You're in a lucky position you should appreciate it.

"They don’t suffer mum guilt if they decide to pursue their lives.. because to them that’s normal."

I don't agree there's any such thing as normal, we're all different. You have no idea what guilt I feel than I have of what guilt you feel.

"To them age is grace and there is no biological clock... very carefree"

Yes, men are immortal. Very perceptive. You should be a doctor.

"I resent DH sleeping through the night while I have to get up breastfeed.."

And does he resent going to work when you get to spend quality time with your children? If this is a problem to you, why not suggest that you go work and he looks after the kids. Don't blame 50% of the population for your own life choices.

"I love being a mum, always wanted to be, and want more kids, but It comes at such a huge cost that doesn’t seem to affect him as much."

Your choice in life, if you don't like it change it.

"I find myself snapping a lot because I feel annoyed at the changes I had to my social life and my career and my sleep and my overall life. Even though it was my choice.. because I feel it’s what best for my child. But I can’t help feel resentment :S"

And if you're DH - who you don't seem to like very much - "snapped at you a lot" - would that be verbal abuse? I feel sorry for the guy.

Seriously, I get where you're coming from and if this was a jokey sort of post it wouldn't rile me but compared to some of the people who post on Mumsnet with REAL problems you have nothing to complain about.

What you're actually complaining about are the decisions that YOU have made yourself.

lazyarse

I agree with the idea that women are sometimes the creators of their own problems.

For example, my DH and I went to an NCT group before our baby was born, to make local parent friends. After the course we all set up a WhatsApp group. But when the babies were born, the mums set up a new mums-only WhatsApp group, and all the chat migrated to that. I went back to work, and my DH was home with the baby. But stuff is still organised on the mums group, which I am (pointlessly) a member of and my DH is not allowed to join (after he awkwardly asked!!). Quite a bit of chat on the mums group is about how their husbands aren't involved enough with the babies. I admit to being quite annoyed that the group can't see that excluding a fellow SAHP just because he happens to be a man is contributing to the status quo that means more men don't take time off work to stay home with their kids. It's the same with lots of groups and classes locally that are advertised as being for 'mums' but this just seems a lot more personal.

@2boysDad to what extent do you agree with the statement ‘it takes very little to be considered a great dad, and very little to be considered a shit mum?’

You also say And does he resent going to work when you get to spend quality time with your children? If this is a problem to you, why not suggest that you go work and he looks after the kids. Don't blame 50% of the population for your own life choices.

...yet say you don’t give a toss about your career. In which case, why didn’t you take the time off when your kids were small? Why not do it now? Surely you’re also guilty of blaming 50% of the population on you not getting what you wanted (paternity leave vs maternity leave)?

I think it's up to the parents

Exactly, so not the kids. We are influenced by our parents as to what our choices in toys/careers/expectations/gender roles are.

So it’s not strictly speaking OUR personal choice. We may get more choice as we get older but by that time we’ve been socialised by our parents so there are no truly free choices.

For those of you who think it’s all down to individual choice, why then do we not see random outcomes?

Why do we see more women taking a career hit? Why do we see more men in senior management? Why do we see more women wearing makeup, shaving, worrying over their looks? And likewise for men, whatever they suffer from collectively, why do we see that?

If it’s all down to individual choice, how do you explain tendencies amongst demographics?

I think I am lucky to be a woman! I find it so much easier for my daughters than my sons - their life is already so much easier and will keep going.

I feel the same way.

Of course the argument will be that women don’t need to have children if they don’t want the pregnancy, Labour, breastfeeding, sleepless nights etc. But it’s not a fair argument given that most people have a biological desire to have children.

The problem is, because men have the biological advantage of not having to deal with those things, we suffer immensely even beyond the pregnancy and birth. My career hasn’t suffered per se but I felt too guilty to put DS in full time childcare so I’ve gone back PT for a year until he’s two and I hope to feel less guilty then...

coatless Er well, no clearly nothing happens in a vacuum. All our lives are influenced by factors in our upbringing and in society which are beyond our control. But that doesn't mean that these factors are completely determinative. There are no 100% free choices, perhaps, but that's not to say there are no choices.

Anyone with the intelligence and self-awareness to look at gender stereotypes and think they are a bit limiting can make choices to mitigate the impact of those stereotypes on their own lives.

I think it's important to acknowledge and criticise social inequality. BUT acting like that inequality is something that is set in stone is the opposite of empowering. The point of criticising society should be to transform it, not to entrench it!

A lot of us women have to defy the misogyny in order to live the lives we want and that does come at a cost, huge cost.. at least for a big chunk of us.

Men get to live their lives with misogyny actually being their friend unless they choose and decide to opt out of it for the sake of being fair.

Am I wrong ??

No one likes to be told they’re selfish, for being a 50/50 parent. Men get told they’re amazing for being 50/50 parents. Women get questioned.

this alone highlights the privilege.

Also going 50/50 isn’t always the fair thing. Because of biological differences.. she could be menstruating, she could be pregnant, she could be compromised by biology where he isn’t.

To the pp that mentioned that kids come to her for comfort and go to their dad for playing.. well I love and see that..

Playing is a choice. Comforting a child while I’ll is a greater need.. a dad can opt to give them something that doesn’t require his energy to play with and no one bats an eye lid.. a child seeing you as the source of comfort and meeting their basic needs is a much much bigger responsibility in my opinion..

Can anyone here seriously say that their DC seek them and their partner equally when it comes to their basic needs??

I think many of us are a default parent without choosing to. I love being a mother. But it does come at a huge cost which is hardly ever acknowledged.

Men get to be a fun loving dad without much cost attached to it. That’s what I’m jealous of.

And it’s not true that kids love their mothers more. I’ve always loved my dad more. Specifically because he was the playful one who took us fun places every weekend .. while mum did alll the repetitive mundane tasks of meeting our basic needs.. daily..

I only appreciated how dismissive I was when I became a parent.

@Pumperthepumper
Men also can suffer impotence, bloating and migraine, along with a host of other medical problems in middle age, to do with middle age.
It's menopause, not a battle of the sexes.
Feel free to continue with your sexist twaddle though, I'm sure someone will care enough to listen.

I don't understand that post:

When my niece gets bought sparkly mirrors, tiaras and t-shirts telling her to be a fabulous unicorn whilst her brother gets bought science kits, cars and t-shirts telling him to be strong, adventurous and mischievous, does she know she doesn’t have to buy into it?

why did your niece bought sparkly pink stuff? Did her parents push her? Was she attracted by them? If it was all her doing, isn't she allowed to like sparkly things and how is that making her inferior?

In real life, a girl can buy half sparkly, half science kits, wear pink and navy and be both, wear frilly dresses and climb trees. Do you think a boy is as free to wear glitter in his hair, a pink tutu when he goes to play football?

I have never heard anyone telling a girl: you can't buy that, it's for boys.
The reverse is not true.

coatless no one is suggesting that there is an equal choice. Clearly society is much more set up for women to take parental leave than men, for example, and there are social barriers to both men and women bucking that trend. But that doesn't mean it's impossible to do so. If you're unhappy with the status quo it IS possible to make choices that challenge it. Acting like there is nothing to be done is not helpful to women.

@mauvaisereputation that's not only rude, but also really just fucking bad. How is he doing? I saw few articles on SAHD and very common complaint was that it's really lonely because they don't get accepted into mums groups and are being looked at really suspiciously in play centres. If I were a man and we had children, I wouldn't want to stay at home with them purely because of mums' behaviour towards dads...

@Pumperthepumper

The reason I didn't take time off was because I only had 2 weeks paternity leave. I would have liked to take more time off. Seriously - I really would. And to be more complete in the answer it would have been very much frowned on at my place of work even if it was allowed - an example of society pressure counting against men just as it can count against women.

I don't blame women for this. Or men. I'm just pointing out that the rules we have in our society negatively affect the life choices of men AND women. We're all individuals and should have equal life choices regardless of gender.

‘it takes very little to be considered a great dad, and very little to be considered a shit mum?’

That's a fair point, there's some truth in that, especially amongst the older members of the population. Then again, I have friends who have had to take their ex-wives to court just to be able to see their own kids. They had do a LOT to be considered a dad of any kind when they were in front of the family court. It cuts both ways.

Can anyone here seriously say that their DC seek them and their partner equally when it comes to their basic needs??

you've never hear a little voice crying "I want my daddy"?

When I see my friends kids, they run for a cuddle with their dad just as much as they do with their mum when they hurt themselves.

My poor husband has had to work full time all the way though and I am very grateful to him that he does that for us

If your "poor husband" was single with no kids, chances are he'd still have a full time job, so I'm not sure what your point is?!

2boysDad

I don’t need a man coming and telling me that I have a non issue. Or that my DH is unlucky.

@MoodyBitch haha, yes, it’s hard when actual biology comes into play, isn’t it? When ‘sexist twaddle’ comes up against ‘facts’ and you almost have to admit the differences between an ageing female body and an ageing male one! Obviously it’s just me being sexist but I’m delighted your husband hasn’t had any side effects from his 20 years of having a coil fitted too 👍

why did your niece bought sparkly pink stuff? Did her parents push her? Was she attracted by them? If it was all her doing, isn't she allowed to like sparkly things and how is that making her inferior?

They are bought for her as presents. She may well like them. She may well like books on science but no one buys them for her so we will never know.

That’s my point. There’s an element of choice but you can only choose from what’s on offer.

@lazyarse thank you! He's actually doing fine, as we are fortunate to live in an area where there are quite a lot of baby playgroups and he is good at getting out and about, so he's not stuck on his own or anything. I just find it a bit annoying! All the mums are very nice people, and I don't think they're being deliberately exclusive. I think they just like having a female only chat, which on the one hand, I do get, but on the other, it's not great for my DH, and is also contributing to a situation which they claim to dislike.

@Pumperthepumpet
I'm delighted that neither of us had any side effects from it being fitted too. Fantastic hey 👍
I'm also enjoying comparing my middle aged menopausal body to my middle aged husband's.....and y'know, strangely apart from my flushes there is er......no difference. Double 👍👍
Toodle pip and enjoy your day. X