My DD's first boyfriend is transgender and I feel weird about it.

[Milicentbystander72]

I've always been a very liberal minded person. Supported gay rights all my life. My best friend and DN are gay. I support the rights of Trans people to live their life etc.

My dd15 has a nice group of friends (boys and girls). In that group is a Trans teen (Female to Male). He changed his name in Y8, He's totally accepted as Male at school. There are no issues. He looks completely Male and people who don't know him would never think that he'd been born female. He's a nice boy who is well liked. All good.

Except last night my DD told me she's going out with him. I've surprised myself that this has unnerved me.

My dd hasn't had a BF before. She's only ever snogged one boy before at a party. She says she's 100% straight. She says she fancies the cool older boys in Sixth Form. Has teenage celebrity crushes on boys like Tom Holland etc. So how does this work for her?

Last night I told her all was fine and just to be careful they didn't damage a friendship if they broke up etc, but I didn't make a big deal of it.

Would you find this weird if your dc said they were straight? Please be honest. I'm kind of hoping it fizzles out without any drama.

It really doesn't go the other way

Yes it does

You and wotcha are agreeing with each other and ive decided there is no point reasoning with you

Inclined to agree that this thread is following a well trodden path.

The OP has actually described a situation which all those involved seem to be handling well, without fuss. In contrast, the last few pages of this thread appear to contain lots of catastrophising and seem largely irrelevant to the OP's situation.

Sure this boyfriend is a lovely person but no I wouldn't want my daughter to be exposed to this confusing ideology, because that's what it is. And if you don't tow the line ( by agreeing they are a boy or using the demanded pronouns) you are ex communicated from friendship groups etc and that is really really hard for 15 yr olds to deal with.

But I would just gently explain to her that it's fine to be a lesbian and that you are there for her.

"The OP has actually described a situation which all those involved seem to be handling well, without fuss. In contrast, the last few pages of this thread appear to contain lots of catastrophising and seem largely irrelevant to the OP's situation."

This!

Hang on, 14.46 and tits post - mentioned cult first.
Did we miss that post?
Weren't me guv

The OP has actually described a situation which all those involved seem to be handling well, without fuss

Except the OP, who admits she feels “unnerved” by the situation and therefore felt compelled to post.

Fair enough Rufus, feeling's mutual so all's good then

In other words loads of going on about cult, belief systems etc before I even mentioned it, mine was in response to what others had posted.
Carry on conveniently ignoring that by all means though.

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis have you got a time machine? Does 14:46 come before 14:15 where you're posting from?Does posting in Mockney help with time travel?

You introduced the topic change with your claim that it would not be ok to be uncomfortable with a teenager getting involved with any other belief system. Your post at 14:15.

Yes, and my post was in reference to someone going on about belief systems.
They're trans people. Not some kind of cult.
Which is what was implied by some of the replies

He just acts and looks 100% boyish.
What do you mean by this? He's quiet, speccy and academic? He's into sport and has short hair? He goes around getting into fights, making sexist comments and mooning people from the back of a school minibus? He's got shaving cuts and bad skin and greasy hair and is suddenly hulking over the teachers and feeling awkward about it? And I haven't even started on less stereotypical ways for teenaged boys to look and act.

My immediate reaction to the OP was yes a dabble with same sex relationships however they want to call it. Cute, no problem.
Two reservations occurred to me. Did she feel obliged to go out with him when asked because of the not wanting to date same sex/opposite gender = transphobia thing that teens have going on.
And will she get involved via social contagion. Because being very close to a trans person and believing their narrative she may well start to notice the ways she herself doesn't conform to stereotype - noone does 100% - and become "nonbinary" or something. Which can still be no big deal teenage experimentation with identity. Just a small concern that might then lead to things that cause physical damage such as breast binding.

It's great that she's talking to you openly and I think being supportive of the relationship and keeping talking is the way to be ready to support her with any issues that may arise in future.

In the short term I'd be gently questioning any sexism arising. And maybe double check your own ideas too with all this "acting like a boy" stuff. Thinking boys must act a certain way seems like sexism.

Toorahtoorahaye outlined some internal contradictions in the logic of previous posts and said this was a confusing belief system which parents might not want children getting involved in.

That's not "they're all just a cult"

You picked up on that WotchaTalkinBoutWillis and said it would not be ok to object to children getting involved in any other belief system.

I pointed out belief systems that parents would object to children getting involved in.

You said that isn't the same because trans people are people.

I pointed out that members of all belief systems are people.

You said mentioning cults wasn't allowed.

Why though - it's absolutely a logical progression of thought in this chain of interaction?

It does seem there are a list of things not to be mentioned...

Id find it odd too! But at least she wont get pregnant entered my head too.

You can be transsexual without being a member of the transideology cult but transideology is definitely a cult. It is a new system of belief with no factual basis. Transwomen are quite clearly not women and can only enter the category of ‘women’ by changing the meaning of words.

You and wotcha are agreeing with each other and ive decided there is no point reasoning with you

Why are you still posting then?

The suggestions that it's the gender-critical who are refusing to debate or shut down debate really are beyond belief. Stonewall has categorically and consistently refused to debate, along with the trans lobby.

Gender-critical women trying to organise meetings have been met with continued and vitriolic abuse. On Monday night, one such meeting endured a sustained attempt to forbid it happening in the first place, followed by, IMO, deliberate intimidation of the people attending it.

Most of these fit transideology pretty well.

medium.com/@zelphontheshelf/10-signs-youre-probably-in-a-cult-1921eb5a3857

The suggestions that it's the gender-critical who are refusing to debate or shut down debate really are beyond belief. Stonewall has categorically and consistently refused to debate, along with the trans lobby.

You have got it the wrong way around. The so called gender critical people are accusing posters who are trying to stick to the OP of trying to "shut down debate". Not sure what Stonewall has got to do with it unless you think any of us are members of it.

Woodchuck you welcome debate around the trans issue then? I take it you would condemn Stonewall and various other trans organisations for their #nodebate stance?

1. Invitation to a non-threatening event, e.g. a workshop or poetry reading to meet 'like-minded' people.

1. Love-bombing, i.e. showering the potential recruit with attention and praise.

1. Dangling "The Prize" in front of you, a suggestion that if you join them, you can attain something special. You'll probably be introduced to some "success stories", people whose lives have supposedly been totally turned around since joining the group.

1. Extracting an agreement from you that you want the prize

After introducing the prize, they get you to agree that you want it. This is actually pretty easy, because the prize is usually attractive (who wouldn't want it?), and because admitting your interest in it seems safe because you don't see any obligation attached.

1. Shutting down your dissent by threatening to withhold the prize

When you show any resistance, they simply threaten you that you'll never attain the prize if you keep up that kind of attitude.

1. Establishment of guilt - that makes the recruits feel vulnerable and more susceptible to further manipulation. It's also used to guilt-trip recruits into getting more involved with the group.

1. Carrot/Stick

"Good" behaviour is rewarded and "bad" behaviour is punished.

1. Control of identity, information, environment

One of the most powerful [methods] is getting members to disassociate from the previous family and friends. Those which do this are able to hold a tighter rein on the members.

That is from a 2013 article by an ex-cult (Aesthetic Realism) member, identifying the ways cults recruit members. You really can't see any similarities between that, and the behaviour of many trans ideologues? Because I can see several (I've bolded them for you), and the fact it doesn't worry you that this is going on in plain sight, in schools and all over social media, absolutely astounds me.

Woodchuck you welcome debate around the trans issue then? I take it you would condemn Stonewall and various other trans organisations for their #nodebate stance?

Not once the thread starts going down the same old track with very little relevance to the OP. I don't know anything about Stonewalls "no debate" stance.

By the way, if you translate "the behaviour of some/many trans ideologues has similarities to that of cultists" as "all trans people are a cult" then that's a reading comprehension fail on your part.

I don't know anything about Stonewalls "no debate" stance.

You could, you know, look it up. And maybe have a think about whether you think their approach could be problematic in any way.

I consider it very relevant: is it ok to feel worried about my dd dating someone who is caught up in a cult which refuses to allow debate, requires other to ignore reality, and has lead to the harming of thousands of children?

woodchuck99 Stonewall has been both very clear and very consistent in its policy. It has also said that women's rights won't be affected. I can only say that I find the latter patronising to the extreme.

Many, many women, not least here on MN, have raised, IMO, legitimate concerns and have been met with abuse. They are women from a very wide range of backgrounds, with a huge range of expertise and experience in many fields.

That their questions have been so little acknowledged, for me, smacks of plain sexism and misogyny.