My DD's first boyfriend is transgender and I feel weird about it.

[Milicentbystander72]

I've always been a very liberal minded person. Supported gay rights all my life. My best friend and DN are gay. I support the rights of Trans people to live their life etc.

My dd15 has a nice group of friends (boys and girls). In that group is a Trans teen (Female to Male). He changed his name in Y8, He's totally accepted as Male at school. There are no issues. He looks completely Male and people who don't know him would never think that he'd been born female. He's a nice boy who is well liked. All good.

Except last night my DD told me she's going out with him. I've surprised myself that this has unnerved me.

My dd hasn't had a BF before. She's only ever snogged one boy before at a party. She says she's 100% straight. She says she fancies the cool older boys in Sixth Form. Has teenage celebrity crushes on boys like Tom Holland etc. So how does this work for her?

Last night I told her all was fine and just to be careful they didn't damage a friendship if they broke up etc, but I didn't make a big deal of it.

Would you find this weird if your dc said they were straight? Please be honest. I'm kind of hoping it fizzles out without any drama.

I’m going to have to ask. How is the partner not a ‘butch’ lesbian?

Well at least you don't have to worry about pregnancy. And the risk of male pattern violence is reduced.

You could have a chat with her about what sexuality actually means - female same sex attraction = homosexuality and talk about what 'gender' meant before 2014-ish and what it still means for women all over the world in terms of artificially limiting life chances. Talk about how toxic masculinity hurts men as well as women. Tell her you're glad she's told you and that she can always come to you with these things and then maybe give her some space to think about it.

In all likelihood this is a 'safe' way to explore her options rather than the risks she's probably aware come with an actual male partner (or the social judgement of being with a woman as a woman).

Ifnot, the trans boys DD was at school with were not butch at all.
What I meant was, if you have a village school where every single girl has long hair, then having short hair and wearing boys clothes is gonna make you look butch. (Which there is nothing wrong with but it must be lonely)

Yes, that makes sense.

Your daughter has a girlfriend.

Whilst she identifies as male and wants to be known as male and transgender, she still biologically is female. She has ovaries, a vagina and breasts.

I’d ignore big picture issues and focus on your DD and this boy. If she’s happy and the relationship is healthy (none of the jealous/controlling behaviour that can become a problem in teen relationships at this age) then it’s not a problem. The person your DD is with at 15 isn’t likely to be the same person she’s with at 17. I would also be secretly delighted that there’s no risk of pregnancy or any need to take hormonal contraceptives if it were my DD.

My sister had two friends at school who intentionally dressed like boys - very short hair, plaid shirts, jeans, trainers. One was lesbian and eventually had a sex change, the other was straight, eventually grew her hair and changed her style.

This ‘boy’ is biologically female for the moment. Who knows who he will be in 5 years.

Is this 'trans boy' actually transitioning- eg taking hormones, having surgery etc. or are they just a girl who has short hair and wears clothes more traditionally worn by males?

I think I'd probably assume she was experimenting with her sexuality, as many girls/boys do in their teens. She may or may not be a lesbian/bisexual. A teenage friend of my dd's is a trans man (biological female) in a relationship with a man (biological man) and as far as I can tell, it's just a boring hetero relationship between a girl and a boy. But then, I'm old and not as woke as some.

I am very GC. But I don’t think this is clear cut and doesn’t mean your DD is a lesbian or bi either. I know some transboys and they do pass as being boys, albeit boys with a slightly feminine look which some girls are attracted to anyway. As they mature into adults it is a lot more difficult to pass. So I can understand your DD being attracted to her friend.

Not all 15 years olds are having sex. Lots are just hanging out and snogging etc. So I would think if this as an experimental relationship, and not read too much into it.

For now, your daughter see's this boy as a boy. Looks like a boy, acts like a boy, is a boy...

Then there's the genitialia issue which she most likely hasn't come across yet. I can't see her being sexual with this trans boy when she is straight.

However, I imagine that he is going to have a full sex change? So this changes things and makes things simpler.

They can be a couple and not be sexual. I wouldn't worry about that bit yet.

I totally get that people can be trans and sort of understand it and think each to their own, if it makes them happy.

However, I can't really get my head around this 'I'm a boy today', 'I'm a girl tomorrow' and 'I'm a Ford fiesta on Thursday' stuff and the insistence that people who are that way can use any toilets, declare what 'they feel' on job applications etc. Absolutely not and I don't agree with it.

This situation seems a pretty straight forward one though. He wants and has lived some time as a boy, identifies as a boy and will live out his life as a male/man, with or without a full sex change. I'd be pretty fine with this situation, at least he knows what he is and what he wants, that takes guts and he will probably be a good influence on your daughter.

Maybe just chat to her about what Transgender means. The main thing is she is aware of the facts and doesn't think she's dating a male. If she understands then fine, then she should know she's not straight.

I think the key thing here is making sure your daughter is comfortable in her relationship, just as you would if she was dating someone born male.

But the worry for me would be around what she’s been told about how much permission she had over her own desires. There is a lot of ‘it’s transphobic not to agree to have sex with a trans person’ knocking about online, especially where teenagers congregate.

As long as she is comfortable with her partner then I don’t think you have anything to worry about. She should be able to experiment sexually.

There was a 14 year old lesbian in my friend's daughters class, who announced she was trans.

I have concerns over the number of young girls who are being convinced that they are the 'wrong' sex (impossible) and this would be my concern. It may be a fad/fashion/social ROGD or manipulation by older males, but this is a solid piece on this subject.

www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/7362652/changing-gender-new-anorexia/

I think a lot of the points that people are making on here just aren't actually relevant to OP's post.

I dislike how keen it comes across that a lot of mumsnet are, to label or relabel the daughter's partner or relationship. Two teenagers are "going out" with each other/dating/ whatever we call it. That's normal and unremarkable in itself. To start trying to tell the daughter that the "boy" is a girl or try to instill in her that she is a lesbian when the person she is going out with is male as far as she is concerned seems like a certain shortcut to a mother-daughter row and if she's a typical teenage daughter she may well entrench her position. Why does it matter so much to some of you that OP's daughter uses what you consider to be the correct terminology for her relationship?! Why on earth are some of you insisting a kid you don't know who doesn't identify as female is a butch lesbian?! - frankly that's insulting to butch lesbians and trans people. She's a 15 year old in her first relationship. Keep the communication and support channels open and stress less about labels- they're part of the reason our society has ended up in this gender mess in the first place.

As for the comment about not raising her to be a leftie, I howled with laughter! I'm a GC feminist leftie, my parents are and were Tories through and through, and I'm told their parents I never knew were left wing. She'll make her own mind up.

Sorry, I should have added that the school girl liked wearing trousers, short hair etc.

I hate the thought of girls being pressured, fast tracked to medication then irreversible surgery. We never did hear about the urgent enquiry into why there has been a 4,000% increase in the number of girls being referred to 'gender' clinics.

Just because a teenager identifies as trans doesn't mean that teenager is any more or less likely to bully or upset anyone they date. OP's DD could have a lesbian relationship with a girl who emotionally manipulated her or, indeed, slapped her around - or with a non-trans boy who pressured her for sex she didn't feel ready for. And peer-group pressure to 'go further' sexually, or maintain a relationship you're unhappy with isn't a new problem that's only started happening because Evil Trans Ideology, either: encouraging teens to value consent and bodily autonomy is important whoever they might want to date.

To start trying to tell the daughter that the "boy" is a girl

We’re talking about someone who is biologically female. It doesn’t matter what name or pronoun he uses or what he will in the future. Right now that’s an inescapable fact.

It’s not a question of instilling in DD that she’s lesbian or anything so silly. Merely being open to DD perhaps being bisexual or experimenting.

encouraging teens to value consent and bodily autonomy is important whoever they might want to date.

Couldn’t agree more. So if someone in this child’s school doesn’t consent to being coerced into calling her a boy, how do you think that would play out?

We’re talking about someone who is biologically female. It doesn’t matter what name or pronoun he uses or what he will in the future. Right now that’s an inescapable fact.

I absolutely agree, hence the "". They will be biologically female for life.

What I fail to understand is what +ve benefit pointing this out to DD is going to have?

Sounds potentially fraught and I would not be happy, but you must proceed softly-softly and respect her decision.

No advice, just

Couldn’t agree more. So if someone in this child’s school doesn’t consent to being coerced into calling her a boy, how do you think that would play out?

Apart from the fact that has nothing to do with consent or body autonomy why would people at the school need to call her anything?

@woodchuck99 I'd save your breath It's just a game to some I think lol

absolutely agree, hence the "". They will be biologically female for life.

Disingenuous as the point is that (PC aside) - non op, pre op and post op trans states are very different. He will always be biologically female but he could potentially adopt male genitalia and hormone treatment to make him ‘male’ in away he is not now.

Pointing it out to DD is irrelevant, pointing out to the OP that she’s right to question whether DD is as straight as she claims, is.

My daughter is bi. She is 15. I would far rather she dated anyone unable to get her pregnant for the next few years. Her last boyfriend was an absolute abusive manipulative turd and persuaded her into an inappropriate relationship far earlier than I would have wanted for her.

So I think I would be fine with it. Actually, the girl she used to date is now trans. So I know I would be fine.

Love is love.