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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Cultural appropriation

365 replies

Newbiemumsy66 · 24/09/2019 02:08

So this is a term which seems to be used a lot more these day (to my knowledge). I am a white woman and before I start, I am genuinely interested in the definition and especially hearing from those who feel their culture is appropriated.

My understanding is that it is deemed offensive when people (especially white people as we are/were generally an oppressive bunch) steal, wear, eat, cook elements from different cultures. I understand that it is often the case that these things are done disrespectfully, which of course is totally wrong. However, why isn’t it ok for a white woman to wear corn rows because she really likes the style for example? Surely doing something like that shows respect for another culture and shows that it’s a good thing to embrace our differences. Also why is it then not offensive for black people to straighten their hair such as their European counterparts natural hair? Surely everything is appropriated from everywhere in one way or another - it’s a positive step forward for inclusivity and to embrace one another’s differences in a good way. Surely by keeping these traditions within specific races only breeds further segregation?

Apologies if my post is tone deaf or not worded particularly sensitively, but it is just something that I feel I need educating on if my opinion comes from a place of privilege and is ill informed. I mean no offence, so please don’t reply with hate, if I’m wrong tell me why.

OP posts:
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joyfullittlehippo · 24/09/2019 22:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DoctorAllcome · 24/09/2019 22:05

It’s literally square like a pillow. Not curvy. No musculature. This is a natural bum.

Tinalima · 24/09/2019 22:06

That’s because it’s not natural ,most African women with that size and shape bum would equally have big thighs to go with it , you can easily see she just enhanced the bum and kept her skinny legs.
I come form an African tribe that naturally has large bums like that and small waist but obviously big legs too.Some women I know have 3 sizes or bigger lower body than their upper body.

DoctorAllcome · 24/09/2019 22:10

@joyfullittlehippo
The point being made

Well why didn’t they say so then? I can’t read unwritten points. No ones a mind reader.

And isn’t the policing of people and outcries of cultural appropriation a form of condemnation?

Tinalima · 24/09/2019 22:10

You might call it square but serena has an average black women curvy bum, nothing square. I guess curvy is subjective.

joyfullittlehippo · 24/09/2019 22:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DoctorAllcome · 24/09/2019 22:13

@Tinalima
“That’s because it’s not natural ,most African women with that size and shape bum would equally have big thighs to go with it , you can easily see she just enhanced the bum and kept her skinny legs.”

At last! Something we agree on. For some reason I thought you were saying the new fashion ideal is the botched bum of KK when imho, it’s the real deal that is ideal now. Yes, KKs legs are wrong, but also the shape of her bum is all wrong too.

DoctorAllcome · 24/09/2019 22:15

@joyfullittlehippo
No, I don’t think you can compare a history of black people being fired, disciplined, denied education and systemically oppressed to someone disagreeing with you on a message board.

Are you talking to yourself? No ones made that comparison....except you...just now.

joyfullittlehippo · 24/09/2019 22:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DoctorAllcome · 24/09/2019 22:32

@joyfulittkehippo
You’ve won the award for most extreme illogical reading of a question.
I asked a question with a “?” You can’t make a claim and end it with a “?”

And the word “condemnation” which actually means “the expression of very strong disapproval“ you have deliberately decided to misconstrue it to read as if it were “systemic oppression”

Everything you listed that you listed were examples systemic oppression NOT condemnation.

So I will ask you again, is not the policing of people and the accusation of cultural appropriation not a form of condemnation?

(Note also I do not mention race or culture here, this is a universal question...so think also of Rihanna and her henna tattoos as well as Katy Perry dressed as a geisha, etc)

TravelsWithChild · 24/09/2019 22:54

@DoctorAllcome Love the reference to Ariana Grande! Sometimes I think I'm the only person that remembers she used to have red hair and freckles!!

joyfullittlehippo · 24/09/2019 23:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Toorahtoorahaye · 25/09/2019 00:33

“so it's not okay even when the person has had the backstory including a sari? I'm so confused right now.“

Where CA it’s run to extremes (like with pronouns and gender) you’re supposed to be confused and eternally apologetic.

DeeCeeCherry · 25/09/2019 00:45

Newbie OP read 'Why I'm No Longer Talking To White People About Race'.

Great title. & book.

Considering you put up the post you don't have to say. How - strange.

Lowlandlucky · 25/09/2019 08:06

I was at a Highland wedding a few weeks ago, the evening reception was a traditional Ceilidh, many men wore kilts, most of the men were Scots but quite a few were English, 4 were black and one was Chinese they all wore kilts and nobody was offended. CA is just another way for people to be offended, if a persons culture was ignored they would moan about that too

RolyWatts · 25/09/2019 08:07

@Lowland no one was offended because that's not cultural appropriation.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 25/09/2019 08:09

How not?

ThatFlamingCandle · 25/09/2019 08:15

was at a Highland wedding a few weeks ago, the evening reception was a traditional Ceilidh, many men wore kilts, most of the men were Scots but quite a few were English, 4 were black and one was Chinese they all wore kilts and nobody was offended. CA is just another way for people to be offended, if a persons culture was ignored they would moan about that too

How many times do we have to tell you, that's not appropriation. That's called respect and participation of a culture.

Somebody on this thread had a really good definition and I'll try to explain it. It's when a dominant group takes something from another often marginalised group, and then the dominant group is praised for it and the original people are ridiculed.

Like with dark skin. People with dark skin are marginalised whilst there are white people for example on social media who can make their skin dark(blackfishing, lol it up) and they get praised somehow. This is harmful not just socially but it actually takes money out of the pockets of actual dark skinned influencers.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 25/09/2019 08:16

Because Scottish people are the masters of the universe? Ummmm check your history.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 25/09/2019 08:16

And I’m Scottish btw.

Juells · 25/09/2019 08:21

MolyHolyGuacamole

Here, it's all about CONTEXT. Wearing a Sari at an wedding to pay respect, not appropriation.

Wearing it in your every day life as a fashion, when Indian people have been made made to feel inferior for their 'funny style of clothing'...appropriation.

Would you point us to where Indian people have been made to feel inferior for the 'funny style of clothing' ? 😂

ThatFlamingCandle · 25/09/2019 08:22

Because Scottish people are the masters of the universe? Ummmm check your history.

Eh?

Faith50 · 25/09/2019 08:40

Grumpos You could not have said it better.

"Picking and choosing what you want without living with the shit that comes with it".

Black people, mainly women have long had big butts, been able to churn out a good meal from the most basic of ingredients, can dance to just about anything, can switch up their hairstyle. Barely any acknowledgment given.

1999 - Jennifer Lopez bursts onto the scene with a supposedly big butt and is adorned by all.

2003/2004 - David Beckham wears cornrows and everyone goes into hysterics

2015 onwards - the Kardashians are praised for their surgically enhanced big butts (please check out their before and after pictures)

2016 onwards - many caucasian women celebrity and non-celebrity sport ridiculous over sized lips which are of course praised

Black women have long had natural big butts, full lips and were always creative with their hair. It is only when a caucasian person sports a look that we in society feel the need to give credit because only then is it deemed as worthy.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 25/09/2019 09:00

Because people say it’s not CA if the group copies has the ‘power.’ Sorry walking and answering work emails too...

Juells · 25/09/2019 09:02

It is only when a caucasian person sports a look that we in society feel the need to give credit because only then is it deemed as worthy.

TBH I find that a really weird white-centred view. You're talking as if black people don't have their own opinions, and that it matters whether or not white people approve of some aspect of their reality. Do you think most black people in the world care whether white people like aspects of black culture or not? Do you think Indians care whether white people like Bollywood films or not?

I don't like everything about American culture. Should Americans care? Should it bother me that they don't understand or like things about my culture?

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