Cultural appropriation

[Newbiemumsy66]

So this is a term which seems to be used a lot more these day (to my knowledge). I am a white woman and before I start, I am genuinely interested in the definition and especially hearing from those who feel their culture is appropriated.

My understanding is that it is deemed offensive when people (especially white people as we are/were generally an oppressive bunch) steal, wear, eat, cook elements from different cultures. I understand that it is often the case that these things are done disrespectfully, which of course is totally wrong. However, why isn’t it ok for a white woman to wear corn rows because she really likes the style for example? Surely doing something like that shows respect for another culture and shows that it’s a good thing to embrace our differences. Also why is it then not offensive for black people to straighten their hair such as their European counterparts natural hair? Surely everything is appropriated from everywhere in one way or another - it’s a positive step forward for inclusivity and to embrace one another’s differences in a good way. Surely by keeping these traditions within specific races only breeds further segregation?

Apologies if my post is tone deaf or not worded particularly sensitively, but it is just something that I feel I need educating on if my opinion comes from a place of privilege and is ill informed. I mean no offence, so please don’t reply with hate, if I’m wrong tell me why.

Cultural appropriation is the act of taking a part of someone else's culture and either

A) wearing/cooking/doing it mockingly

Or

B) stealing the credit from the original culture (so say, a traditional recipe now being called your own rather than say 'Trinidadian Pilaf').

There is the added context of white people mocking black people for generations but then now using those characteristics they mocked as a fashion statement. White people haven't been mocked for having straight or blonde hair and it's also not a CULTURAL thing, it's a genetic one. Black people aren't born with cornrows, there is significance in their weaving.

I wrote my thesis partly on cultural appropriation of foods/recipes so that is what I am basing this on.

Cultural appropriation is the act of taking a part of someone else's culture and either

A) wearing/cooking/doing it mockingly

That’s just plain ole racism though, isnt it?

@phoenixrosehere

On cornrows
“black people have been wearing that style for centuries and still are and it was considered ugly, ghetto, etc.. and still seen that way today. ”

All true until the very end. Cornrows are no longer considered to be ugly, ghetto, etc.

Vikings wore dreads and that is seen as cool, yet again not when many black people do it.

And yet thats causing problems in itself. As I mention, my dad family can be traced back to the vikings. His family keep alot of the old ways. My dad keeps some, as do I.

Symbolic Mjönir in my house. Gifts with symbols on. I even go outside every friday morning and pour some coffee (which is definitely food of the gods as far as I am concerned) on the ground on a Friday etc. Its habit for me, rather than religion.

Through the programme 'Vikings' and The Avengers norse mythology has become popular and cool again. Quite a few people getting viking tattoos, valkyrie symbols on necklaces and bracelets. People claiming their 'tribe is viking, bitch'. Thats actually a meme. Non of that bothers me.

But then odinism/asatro has attempted to be adopted by neo nazis, in some claim that it's about being pure. It's really not. Yet symbols of Mjönir keep popping up in relation to them, meaning I dont really feel comfortable with the things I have in my house.

So, actually, sometimes, something being 'cool' doesnt help at all.

@LaurieMarlow

Where did I say white people shouldn’t. I see nothing wrong with anyone wearing it only that it is wrong when it is deemed unprofessional for a minority group who has been wearing it for centuries, yet ok for a different group who deemed it that way to them.

B) stealing the credit from the original culture (so say, a traditional recipe now being called your own rather than say 'Trinidadian pilaf

This is more complicated, but food has always benefited from cross cultural influences and grown and developed accordingly.

Someone posted about bindi

Another thing my parents thought was fine. I couldn't tell you the meaning of it but if I wore it, I suspect all the CA judgey folk would assume I did know because of my skin colour.

I see nothing wrong with anyone wearing it only that it is wrong when it is deemed unprofessional for a minority group who has been wearing it for centuries, yet ok for a different group who deemed it that way to them.

I agree.

My point is that this is a problem with racism rather than CA.

My question is: When a white woman is praised for wearing a traditionally “black” hairstyle that would be considered by some to be unattractive/ unprofessional/ “ghetto” on a black woman, who is at fault? I don’t think the white woman has done anything wrong - to her, it’s just a hairstyle. Surely it is society’s unequal treatment of white and black women that is wrong. Yet some people seem to think white women should apologise which I find a bit odd. Are we really saying women shouldn’t be allowed to wear certain hairstyles and clothes?

On the subject of white privilege: I read something a while back that summed it up really well, which was that white privilege doesn’t mean you’ve had an easy life, it just means that your skin colour isn’t one of the things that made it harder.

You are not telling me that in Europe, in all those centuries where people had a bath once a year if they were lucky, that they didn't wash their hair, that they all shaved their heads so as to avoid dreadlocks??

Most hair will dreadlock in some way if it isn't washed or brushed.

And plenty of Europeans have unruly, curly hair which they have been told to sort out. Yes, its not Afro hair but it can also be difficult to keep under control.

Surely it is society’s unequal treatment of white and black women that is wrong.

Agree

Tony Singh MBE the chef. 100% Indian heritage, second generation UK born member of his family. Wears both a turban etc as per his Sikh religion and a Scottish kilt. CA or just a man proud of his heritage?

white privilege doesn’t mean you’ve had an easy life, it just means that your skin colour isn’t one of the things that made it harder.

I hadn't heard that before but it is a really good way of putting it.

My question is: When a white woman is praised for wearing a traditionally “black” hairstyle that would be considered by some to be unattractive/ unprofessional/ “ghetto” on a black woman, who is at fault? I don’t think the white woman has done anything wrong - to her, it’s just a hairstyle
She's at best naive and at worst she's faux naive because she wants to look cool by wearing a hairstyle know to have baggage with it but because she's white she can pretend it's just a hairstyle.

@phoenixrosehere

I don't want to get hung up on one issue but I'm not sure dreads on a white person would be considered any more professional than on a black person. Not sure they're considered professional on anyone but why some hairstyles are more professional than others is beyond me and understand what you're saying.

Re the point you make about the offence being at the difference in treatment is that not just down to those things being outside of the cultural norm for that country? For example I'm heavily tattooed and It's only been in the last 10 years or so I've stopped being singled out because of them. I never took offence to this because I knew it wasn't the done thing and certainly don't care now it's become more acceptable in the UK. Likewise if I were to move to Japan I'd be treated differently again as tattoos are heavily linked to crime there but I wouldn't take offence to it. I also don't think you can use celebrities as an example as they tend to live outwith societal norms anyway.

Lola you mentioned things having baggage associated with them

I feel as if everyone is under pressure to know everything these days and that's ridiculous and unfair. Like the poster who mentioned bindi - I don't know either! I'm sure I'll be judged, mum used it when I was little, I probably asked what it meant and forgot in 5 mins. So if someone uses something because they like it, do you expect them to do a bunch of research? Is this where we are now?

the example of the chef has given me a jolt

is that another "reason" why I'm endlessly questioned about my heritage? Are people trying to decide if it's acceptable for me to be wearing a particular item of clothing or jewellery?

I did once have an Irish lady at a party say "why are you wearing that necklace" - clover - and I just said "It's pretty...and I liked it...so I bought it". She said "did you get in Ireland?" I lied and said yes, because I had a bad feeling about where that was going.

autumn
Surely we live and learn rather than saying "how was I supposed to know so we'll all stew in ignorance" ?

I'm sure there's a photo of me and some friends at a party when younger with stick on earrings/temporary tattoos as bindis, covered in roll on body glitter and hair mascara (those were the days ). None of us had a clue, we were in a very white British area where there was maybe 2 non white children in the school, but we do now and aside from the look being terrible, I'd now be aware of the significance.

I find the whole "but are we expected to research anything we like" to be a bit off the mark and a milder version of "we can't say anything these days without offending someone". The more we learn and appreciate cultures the more respect we can show and that consideration is surely desirable?

Lola for me, what you are saying works negatively. People trying to find out the history of these things usually means they are critical of me for not knowing things about what they have decided is "my" culture".

when you were wearing your bindis, I was that one of two non-white girls in the area and it was automatically accepted that I was British.

Also - seriously - no, I don't expect everyone to investigate everything. I do think you should be able to pick up a pendant in a shop and just buy it because you like it.

I find if we just respect each other as human beings, everything works out really.

How about this for CA then - the great British meal - fish and chips?
Really?
Introduced by Jewish immigrants in the late 19th century.
Curry houses have been around longer, they date back to the start of the 19th century.
Why can't we all just get on, chill out stop being mockoffended?

I have family in Iran. Cultural appropriation of Arab culture is the norm there. But then there’s bugger all choice in the matter.

Cultural Appropriation is a thing. Imagine if for centuries a white person told you that your way of life was barbaric, uncouth, uncivilised, you were made to feel a second/third class citizen in your own country. Then centuries later the descendants of those white people started to do for instance Yoga (a religiously derived health benefit), or organise colour festivals such as 'Festival of Colour' which was derived from the religious Hindu festival of Holi, and not understand the origin of those. Would that not p*ss you off. Even today the idea of beauty, whether you like it or not is based on western idea of beauty. Ethnic minorities still struggle to this day, and by taking what we have struggled to preserve for millennium that white people have tried to destroy, and then appropriate it into your own white lifestyle is abhorrent.

sallievp wearing Indian clothes because it's expected or polite to do so within the Indian culture wouldn't be classed as CA. I lived in India, and while there, we were invited to a colleagues' daughter's wedding. He actually paid for us to have wedding outfits made so that we would have appropriate dress for the day. That's not CA. Now that we're back in England, if I chose to wear that same sari as a costume for fancy dress, for example...that's the difference.

My Indian friend of mine made me wear an outfit to one of her events. I can’t say it looked all that elegant on me but it was pretty.

What if you wore it to a formal?

Is that okay?