Is the teacher or me?!

[Treeli]

Full disclosure, DS can be a sod behaviour wise. Low level disruption, he’s been on report twice since he started secondary school. He’s just started year 8.

When he joined the school he was streamed middle/bottom sets. He passed his SATS but he’s an August born.

Last year he absolutely smashed science. Didn’t show much ability in class but past his assessments with flying colours. I knew and his teacher made it clear he didn’t want him in the top set but they had to move him due to his assessment marks.

3 weeks into term and I’ve just looked through his science book. They had a quick pop quiz of last years material and his teacher has written this:

XXXXX, should you be in this class? Are you comfortable? I have SERIOUS concerns about you being here looking at this, id like to talk to you after class.

I’m the last person to go running to the school complaining about poor DS (in fact I was the one who told them to put him on report last time), but doesn’t that seem a bit harsh 3 weeks into term when they are going over material from last year?

If he isn’t doing the work, he shouldn’t be in that set.

Why isn’t he doing it?

I don’t think the teacher is being unreasonable.

XXXXX, should you be in this class? Are you comfortable? I have SERIOUS concerns about you being here looking at this, id like to talk to you after class.

That’s not a nice way for the teacher to react at all. It is obvious the teacher does not want your ds in their class.

But, maybe it’s a good opportunity to teach your son that if he annoys others, he will miss out on opportunities. It shouldn’t be the case in school in many ways, but teachers are human too.

It certainly will be the case in life though. You do have to think of others and if you don’t, you will miss out on many things in life.

They’ve been at school for three weeks! Not really much time to prove anything one way or the other.

Teachers can gauge an awful lot in 3 weeks; you’d be surprised.

He may be bright, but if he isn’t working-it isn’t the right set for him.

The pop quiz was Task: xxxxxxxxx and a list of things which needed to be included in the answer.

DS has answered the questions as a list of answers and not as a few paragraphs which touch on each answer. I’ve looked back through his book and he’s done fine on the other tasks (a very comments on using more scientific answers) but mostly greens and a few pinks

Are you sending it, OP?

“He may be bright, but if he isn’t working-it isn’t the right set for him”

I appreciate that. But if they are just going to bottom stream kids irregardless of what score they get then what does that tell DS? Don’t even bother trying because at the end of term 3 kids are getting moved up and even if you have the top mark you aren’t going anywhere?

I had no idea teachers didn’t manage behaviour within their own classes. What about the poor teachers who end up teaching bottom set?!

Yep! Just getting dinner out

He probably needs some support/guidance in what top set expectations are and they don't teach all of the content in lower sets as they concentrate more on understanding of the easy stuff not pushing the harder stuff. He may have some gaps.

You need to speak to the school, specifically the teacher and ask them if your son will manage to keep up with the work in the set or not.
Then work with them to sort out his ongoing behaviour problems. He's 12 not 5. Your "sod" is probably everybody else's nightmare student/classmate.

Secondary school teacher here - that is a very weird comment and I'd be following it up. Regardless of his behaviour if he is keeping up with his assessments that is the set he should be in. 'Sink sets' as they used to be (i.e. a 'bottom' set where all the naughty kids get stuck) just don't/shouldn't exist these days. If the teacher does have serious concerns about his ability then that is not the way I would expect it to be approached, especially if he then didn't make time for him at the end of the lesson

@seaweedandmarchingbands, I can’t send images to you over PM?

Oh right.

P do you think your SS may be acting up in class because he is bored/understimulated? If that’s the case I’d fight to keep him in the stop set.
In which case why isn't he loving the top set and really steaming ahead? Doesn't look likely from what the teacher said.

They’ve been at school for three weeks! They're only at school for 39 weeks. That's roughly 7% of the year, another week will be over 10%. He should be settled in that set by three weeks into term.

As someone else put it, it is perfectly possible to be top of one set and not cope in the next one up.
I play tennis. In one league I have played in there used to be one team that varied between division 3 and 4. In division 4, they won every single match easily, hardly lost a set (12 sets per match)and were bored. In division 3, they thought they had a huge success if they lost the match 7-5, they got 2 points one year-I know because I was brought in along with a couple of others to get those points. They were hopelessly out of their depth and miserable.

It's a bit of a weird comment on its own to put in a book (however valid the sentiment).

I'd want to talk to the teacher to find out what the big picture is. It sounds like he's a sod in class, has spent too much time messing around, been lucky enough to be the sort of student who does well on assessments when the time frame between material and assessment is small but hasn't got decent retention due to being a PITA.
Add in what you say about him listing answers Vs a paragraph and it continues to build a picture of someone who doesn't follow instructions.

His sats and being summer born are totally irrelevant. Just because he was top of his set last year doesn't mean he has the right knowledge and attitude to manage in top set this year.
I agree with PP that what you consider to be a bit of a sod is most likely by year 8 a student who systematically hinders everyone else learning.

Call for a chat with the teacher but I'd be very open minded that you're not getting the full story from your DC.

I had no idea teachers didn’t manage behaviour within their own classes. What about the poor teachers who end up teaching bottom set?!
We do. And part of that is holding those who may be "little sods" responsible for their own actions and progress.

Also, I bloody love teaching bottom sets. There's no "poor teacher" about it. Bottom sets aren't sink groups. Less academically able children may need some different approaches but they can still do well. Equally those who are middle or able ability who end up in bottom sets due to persistent poor performance and poor attitude further down the school need a different approach but should be expected to behave and supported to learn and catch up.

Those who are badly behaved and disruptive in any set need a rocket up their arse so they learn that they have absolutely no right whatsoever to prevent others from learning.

I'm a science teacher, and I do think that's a bit of an odd thing to write in a child's book.

If I had a Y8 student who I thought was in the wrong set, I wouldn't handle it in this way. I might have a quiet chat to them at the end of the lesson, if it was clear they were struggling regularly, but ultimately the decision about what set they go in shouldn't be in their hands. I'd be having conversations with the HoD and other class teachers and so on.

If I wanted to speak to a child, I'd find a quiet moment in the lesson to do it.

In a lot of schools, setting isn't just 100% on assessment scores- some of it is attitude, some of it is ability to cope with the pace of the class, some of it is ability to cope with the type of classwork being given. But it shouldn't be done on behaviour either.

I'd get in touch with the school/science teacher to see what is going on- not in an all guns blazing kind of way- but just to talk through their concerns.

Your son is disruptive. You've admitted this. You need to be dealing with it and not making excuses for his behaviour. The teacher could have written it better, I agree. However, your sons behaviour isn't acceptable.

That is not really the sort of thing I would expect a teacher to write in a pupil's book.

Perhaps you could ask for an appointment with the head of year, and discuss everything with them.

Three weeks is enough time. My classes will be sitting their end of unit assessments next week and sets can change based on that. Don't throw your kid's behaviour back on the teacher not managing their classes. That proper boils my piss. If it has got to the stage where teachers don't want him in their classrooms, that's more than just being a "sod" - it sounds like he has gained a reputation for being a little shit, and that in year 7 rings massive alarm bells. It is either that, or maybe he really isn't as good as people thought and they do need to reconsider.

Although for what it is worth, that is a bizarre thing to write.

I think that's an awful thing for a teacher to write. I'd ask to speak to him if it were me and ask for an explanation.

For those at at back. I AM dealing with his behaviour. I can’t sit with him in school. I regularly check his behaviour score online. If it’s creeping up I email his HOY and we discuss what is going on. I recommended he went on report the second time. He is sanctioned at home and as you can see I check his books daily to see what his day has been like.

What more would you like me to do?

And he isn’t running rampant in class. His last three behaviour points were for: forgetting his calculator (was actually buried under his PE kit), calling out once and laughing at his friends joke.

Not ideal but hardly exclusion material yet.

Have you thought about sending him to a different school?

He's probably disrupting the learning of the other engaged, attentive kids in that set. That's not fair really is it?

Top set isnt just about ability. It is also about pace and attitude. Independent work outside class is crucial. A smart-enough-for-top-set child with a poor work ethic will quickly fall behind.

He probably isn't in the correct set going by your description.

Check his homework all this week, op. Make him re-do pieces that are below a very good standard. Look at his classwork. Have him improve work that is incomplete. Be harsh. Teach him that if he fails to work at the standard of the top set whole in class, you will ensure he does it at home. And follow through.

And he isn’t running rampant in class. His last three behaviour points were for: forgetting his calculator (was actually buried under his PE kit), calling out once and laughing at his friends joke.
So he has 3 things that have made it onto the behaviour system, you say yourself he can be a sod. Most schools don't put behaviour points on for one tiny thing, so behaviour point for calling out "once" almost always translates to "has been disruptive and chatty and the calling out was the final straw". Equally, most schools don't put a behaviour report on for one laugh so yet again it's probably "disruptive and silly and then laughing at a joke has triggered the behaviour point".

By your own admission his behaviour isn't good so the likelihood is he is one of those students who is perfectly nice but goes lesson to lesson being chatty and distracting enough to hinder his own and other people's learning but regularly falls just short of behaviour points.

Not ideal but hardly exclusion material yet.
Nobody has suggested otherwise.