Absolutely on my knees and I don’t know what to do

[TooMuchPeppa86]

I don’t even know where to start

I work part time (3 days) in a job that doesn’t really fit into part time hours. I cut my hours because I have two wee girls (5 and 2) who are my whole world and I thought it’s fine it’ll be a few years of working at nights once they’re asleep and then I can increase my hours in the office once they’re at school.

Five year old started school last month. Her sleep is beyond horrific. She has no interest in sleep she won’t even try. But I need to stay in her room or she just kicks off. Last night it was 11pm before she went to sleep. I then had to work until 3am to stay afloat.

I can’t do this any more. I can’t. The first thought I had when I woke up this morning was sheer panic about how behind I am at work because I can’t fit it all in.

She won’t have DH. He does the housework at night and keeps that ticking over.

Let her scream. Tell her daddy is the only option from now on.

She will soon stop it.

Starting school is knackering and she's kicking against the tiredness. Let school know of her sleeping habits, she simply must be tired during the day.

She has two parents. The housework can wait till this brief crisis is over.

I think indecisivelurcher's idea sounds great.

I really don't think the tough-talking disciplinarian approach many people here are advocating (who are not going to have to deliver it themselves) is going to 'work' here. It would be, to say the least, profoundly unfair on the child. FWIW I think considering whether there is something non-NT behind this would be worth it, though I couldn't pinpoint the issue.

Gosh you have my sympathy. My #2 only regularly started sleeping through at 7 (wish I'd heard of the tokens then, she would have gone for that). In fact she is now in her 20s and sleep is just something she doesn't do much of. But at least now if she's waking me up at 3:30am it's probably because she's getting in late, not slamming open our bedroom door and shouting "MUUUUUUMMMMMM I CAN'T SLEEP"

Good luck.

It’s not so much housework. It’s keeping the house ticking over ie making our dinner (which I usually eat after 10pm), loading/unloading dishwasher, getting clothes ready for the morning and bags packed etc

The token idea is GENIUS. Filing that away for when I eventually need it (I’m sure that I will with my 20 month old!)

Also think the token idea would be worth a try

I feel your pain OP. My daughter is the same. Nothing is as important to her as company at bed time.

We have tried rewards ,punishments etc and nothing has worked. So now she goes to bed at 7pm and she stays in her bed in her own room. Then when me or daddy go to bed one of us sleeps in with her for the night. She has a big double bed and my youngest is fine in his room. She is 6 and sleep has been an issue since 3 year old arrived. I do think reception year is very hard on them though. My daughters behaviour was horrendous but it did settle. It wasn't the obvious stuff like reading that fazed her it was if a friend wouldn't sit next to her at lunch or something.

All the arguing in the evening really revved my daughter up. We had a bedtime routine that worked and then she would get in bed and immediately start saying she wasn't going to sleep. Then the adrenaline surged and it took her ages to sleep. I think it's about removing that first argument point so they don't get so revved up.

I feel for you. I wouldn't give up your job though but maybe try to do more of it during the day even when you have your youngest with you. Also maybe go out at the weekend and get daddy to do a really nice bedtime for her without you there. Very calm and paying lots of attention to her. Then next time say its daddy tonight and mean it. My kids now prefer daddy which is great for me.

Good luck

If your child is being stubborn and keeps getting out of bed you have to be MORE stubborn and keep putting her back, no talking just put her back to bed. If she does it 100 times, you need to do it 101 times. If it seems like a game to her it's because it IS a game to her, the who can win game.. and it sounds like she's winning at the moment.

Honestly all behaviours can be extinguished with the right technique, you just need to be persistent and see it through and show her that you are in control.

@TooMuchPeppa86 you really need to prioritise here. You can’t do it all. If you are doing dinner, bedtime, additional work... what is your husband doing? Put some boundaries in place. You are going to crash and that is no good to anyone. You do have time for bedtime problem solving, if you prioritise it and I would say this is an urgent and important issue that deserves time being spent on it. Delegate. Stop doing work in the evenings. Enlist help.

I don't think telling her that she is making mummy a bit ill is the best idea - I was another little girl that had parents that loved her very much but grew up hugely insecure anyway!

I think clear routine, clear explanations, clear reward schemes (love the token thing) and clear boundaries would work well to try first. I do also think that DH doing it, even if it causes tears for a few nights, is important.

I honestly relish my hour to myself every other evening now that DP shares bedtime with me - even though it took some getting used to.

Can you just let her do her own thing in her room quietly? Read/colour/whatever but make sure it's a quiet activity, you can poke your head round the door occasionally to ask if she's OK.

@toomuch reward charts do nothing for my Dd either

Have you tied putting the girls together? A friend's dd came into their room night after night even when she was 9 or 10. They put her in with her brother and it never happened again. She just didn't like being on her own.

My ds 2 was like this. Not quite as bad but instead of waiting till late at night why don't you put her to bed at 7.30/8 and lie with her till she goes to sleep. If nothing else has worked. That's what I did for a while. He would onky take about 20 mins to fall asleep.

You really need to crack the sleep routine, she's running rings round you. In the nicest possible way, you need to pass this onto DH and like others have said, put earplugs in and let him take over. Yes she's raging she wants you because that way it's all done on her terms. It's not cruel to give a child a good sleep routine.

It will be affecting her learning as well as your work routine.

it seems like she is anxious about something because she only wants you. is the working nights a new thing? is it possible its affected her in some way?

Your being to soft
Routine ,bath bed story,then say goodnight
She comes out of her room ,do a stern voice,bed now ,this instant,and go back to yr work.do not let her rule your roost..she’s 5 your the adult

Rapid return didn't work for me either. We returned 100s of times, night after night after night.

What did work was sitting DS down and explaining that bedtime was for sleep and unless he was ill, or needed the toilet, he was expected to stay in bed from bed time until . Then the first time he got up we checked that nothing was genuinely wrong, and took him back to bed with a reminder of the "rules". The second time we simply told him to go back to bed and then ignored. We had 2 night where he ended up sleeping on the landing, but after that he gave it up. We used a stairgate (or properly shut door that he couldn't get through) to provide a physical distance.

This method was recommended by a sleep clinic (I'd had 3.5 years of maximum 4 hours a night sleep by then, so a gibbering wreck).

I am in a similar situation OP. Now that DD is a little older the only thing I can recommend is:

Take all pressure off going to sleep. Don't say "you have to go to sleep", "you'll be tired in the morning" etc. Settle her in her bed to "rest". We say to DD that she's resting in bed and can do whatever she like as long as she's quiet and resting. Sometimes she will play with / talk to her toys, have an audiobook or an actual book. It's her choice as long as she is quiet and resting.

My DS the eldest was fine with sleeping but DD took ages to get into a sleep routine. She messed about about every night in her room getting everything out of the cupboards and making a mess, reading/looking at pictures in books, playing games, doing tipple overs, art etc. She never screamed and shouted but kept coming out of her bedroom. We would go up quietly and tell her to get into bed nicely but firmly over the years we gave up and thought if she was quiet in her room just leave her to it. She clearly has never needed as much sleep as DS. Now aged 14 she is a bit better but I never let her have a TV in her room iPad or phone or anything.
I wonder if going back to basics and maybe a calm routine at night like we did when ours were younger, Bath time, wind down, story, bed, say she’s ok to look at picture books quietly but she must stay in bed. Get DH to take on this role every night and you stick to your guns with work.

We used a stairgate (or properly shut door that he couldn't get through) to provide a physical distance.

Wouldn’t work with a 5 year old

Whatever you decide about your daughter you should NOT be doing four hours of unpaid overtime every night anyway.

How did you get your 3day/week job? did you promise them you'd do the work of a ft staff member for a 3day salary? if so you're going to have to do some back pedalling.

You need to work out what is feasible in your hours and drop some stuff or get an assistant or chaneg to a job share. You should not be considering quitting just becaue you want to work when you're paid to be working and not all evening (if it wasn't 11pm to 3am it would have been 8pm to midnight which is frankly barely any better for a healthy lifestyle).

It's not 'showing weakness' to say 'I work 24 hours a week so somebody else will have to do x, y and z'. Suck up the courage, don't be apologetic, be firm and put some boundaries in place at work.

You haven't failed her. Don't be so hard on yourself.
I know you said you don't have time to keep returning her to bed, but it's the only thing that'll work. It'll be tiring and an absolute nightmare for a few nights but she needs to learn that you're in charge. I'm not saying that to be nasty, she'll be a lot happier as well when this is resolved. Return her to bed as many times as it takes and leave the room. Above all be consistent. You can do this