About these parents letting their toddler run riot in a restaurant?

[Cheeseoncrumpets]

I want to start by saying that I have no issue with children being in restaurants, but this really did take the piss IMO.

Went out with a friend to a well known chain restaurant for lunch. Very family friendly and lots of families there as a result. As above I have no problem with that, however one couple who unforunately were sat in the booth right behind us, continually let their toddler run riot.

The restauarnt have high chairs available but they had for whatever reason chosen not to use one and he was sat on the seat next to his parents. He kept getting down and running off, firstly he ran right over to the otherside of the restaurant then towards the serving hatch area where staff are collecting hot food, and finally towards the kitchen doors which suddenly prompted the father to go and retrieve him. They sat him down and kept trying to pacify him with lots of 'no don't do that Charlie' (not his real name), 'would you like to play on Mummy's phone Charlie?'. He then kept trying to climb over the booth, and was at one point standing on the seats. At no point did either parent do much to get him under control other than utter a half arsed 'dont do that Charlie'. A walk outside usually works IME.

Eventually he climbed down and went to sleep on the floor next to their table cuddling a soft toy, meaning staff and customers had to either step over him or walk around him. Both parents sat there and just gazed at him adoringly before paying the bill, scooping him up in their arms and leaving.

I'd like to stress I know this wasnt the little boy's fault. He wasnt any older than about two, was clearly bored and just wanted to go off and explore like toddlers do. Im just a bit shocked that either parent thought this was acceptable parenting?

AIBU to think that some parents are incrediably entitled and expect everyone else to tolerate their kids?

*tillytrotter1

Hahaha you’re soooooo witty hmm
I would probably change him on the table and put some of the chocolate on your plate*

My dear child, you are clearly unfit to breed rabbits, let alone children, you really need to be on the SS radar.

Ok fine I acknowledge the hygiene issue, for the rest of everyone around. To be honest it’s been 3 times so far where my DS was put on the table to tame his tantrum and I think 2/3 he was sitting with his legs dangling and only once did we allow him to keep his shoes. They were quite new but I admit that was wrong.

Of course I don’t think my DS is “spirited” and so should follow no rules. But I’m saying I draw the line for myself where I see an obvious harm to others and not just based on their “expectations” of table manners.

So I’m still ongoing in this debate, for the sake of educating “fuckwits” like me.

Say my toddler, had his shoes off and I put him on the table with only socks. I was the one feeding him. He doesn’t last in the high chair more than 10 mins at a time and I’m still training him and so I do curb his boredom by letting him explore the restaurant with me and if I’m too tired to get up I give him things to play with but still he doesn’t sit still and I might put him on the table.. for no reason it just happened with me 3 times as it seemed to keep him quiet.

He only recently learnt how to sit on an adult chair and not be super bored and stay still for longer. So we might not need to face that problem too long after all.

But I want to know, aside from the “sigh of him” sitting on the table, how is it better for me to remain at home with him because of that and how am I infringing on others?

Also, I did a few times let him run in the shops, with me right behind him watching, for few minutes until he got his curiosity out and then back to the trollley.

I would honestly like to know, how is that infringing on others. If he broke something in the shop I would’ve paid for it. But it’s a clothes shop or a Tesco and I’m behind him trying to teach him how to grab the right items.. he isn’t without me. He might end up walking off and I might end up following him.

Yes... it’s not ideal behaviour.. for his sake. but I honestly don’t see how it infringes on others if I’m managing it to that it doesn’t.

My child’s freedom only stops at the boundaries of others, but “expectations” isn’t what o consider appropriate boundaries. Child freedom is a developmental need. So the fine boundary for me is where it infringes on the needs of others.. with a bit of tolerance from either side.

My child isn’t developmental capable to sit still for longer than 10 minutes. Like many his age. I’m not a passive parent but I am one to only expect of him what he is able to comprehend. So I can distract him in ways that work for him and that’s bloody hard work.

When it’s age appropriate and within his capacity I would be firm enough. But to do that now I believe is simply not age appropriate. At least based on where I’m
At with my parenting attempt.. don’t care what you think of me I know myself

So.. again, if there is no risk, or hygiene issue that affects you , or stressful noise... do you still judge a parent for not following your “expectations” of table manners and think they should stay at home? Where do you draw the line.

You and Your child are part of a wider society so the expectations of that society are something he needs to learn and you need to take note of.

I loathe small children running around in shops, I can easily brain them with my trolley when I’m focusing on my shopping, not random toddlers. That of course would be 100% your fault but it would still be bloody upsetting for me, as I don’t actually want to hurt children. So it’s just stressful when you see one.

I’ve seen kids like yours in restaurants and cafes and they are really stressful to be around, because I might well be able to see dangers that you can’t, and it’s impossible to relax.

If he can’t sit still for more than 10 minutes then don’t stop in a restaurant or cafe for more than 10 minutes.

Christ, I can’t believe all this needs spelling out.

Hmm, I'm always rather skeptical of these kinds of parent blaming complaints. I remember going out for meals a few times with my parents and oh the moaning and complaining and disgusted looks from them at families where the child or children were doing little more than taking a short wander and rapidly being brought back to the table or were laughing or singing to themselves not particularly loudly. Behaviour I would never have noticed if my parents hadn't been whinging and making such a big fuss about it.

"My child isn’t developmental capable to sit still for longer than 10 minutes."

My 14 year old often can't cope with more than 20 minutes so we don't stay longer than that. If he has had enough we go. He doesn't get to climb on things or wander around others tables.

MrsNotNice, you're right in that your child's freedom ends at other people's boundaries. It does. I'm not sure what ''expectations' means in that regard? It's certainly not a trump card that a parent can play. If you allow your child to impinge and impose on other people's freedoms then you will run into difficult as your child will rightly have their expressive behaviour regulated because it does impact on other people.

We have children, it's our choice to do that, it's our responsibility to prevent them from negatively impacting and imposing on other people.

I’ve worked in hospitality, free range toddlers/young children are a bloody nightmare.

It’s downright shit parenting.

Control your children or don’t eat out.

I once stopped a toddler heading out the front door of our restaurant. Parents had NO idea where he was.

I think dealing with toddlers, especially active ones, requires planning and creativity.

I remember going to Tesco with my little ones and that it was an opportunity for them to act up and give me a hard time, so I planned these. I went at a time I knew they were least likely to act up, ie. not just before they were due a nap. I prepared them to it, so would tell them in the morning that we would be going to Tesco and I needed them to behave when we did. I warned them again in the car.

I then made games of it. Things like 'spot something red, something blue etc...., then it became 'spot something start with the letter X, and then we used to take a calculator and they would add all the food I was putting in the trolley. I talked to them the entire time. They were very curious too, but we talked about the things they were curious about rather than letting them run around trying to discover things. We talked about what went in making x meal, we guessed the name of vegetables etc...

I do sadly think that there is a lot more lazying parenting, with much less talking about what's around. Maybe it is that mobile phone/computer culture where people don't interact verbally as they used to.

I do sadly think that there is a lot more lazying parenting, with much less talking about what's around. Maybe it is that mobile phone/computer culture where people don't interact verbally as they used to

I agree with this but I think it sadly due to parents having to work to financially survive, and a work culture where we never switch off. People are stretched and stressed and just want an easy life.

DH works bloody long hours but I was always amazed at how he would engage with DS (and his little pals) on boring trips or car journeys, making up word games and puzzles, or I-spy.

He has infinite patience and is an excellent kiddie (especially badly behaved ones) wrangler. Even when parents are ready to jump from a moving car he invents a new game to keep little Lucifer busy (the favourite ones keep the little darlings quiet when they have been very noisy). A couple of friends have shall we say ‘challenging’ children who are quite loud, demanding and rude. DH has managed to keep one relatively quiet and non-moany on a 8 hour car ride (and his parents sane - even they do realise their child can be hard work).

As DS got older he would ask questions and get little debates going with the children.

God knows where he gets the patience from.

@MrsNotNice Running around in restaurants and shops is not appropriate. These are places in which other people do not expect running, and therefore a free range toddler can trip someone up (or crash into something solid) in a second. Expectations are part of what makes up our society. When people do not expect running, they are less likely to be watching out for it, and therefore to avoid it. The onus is not on them to change their behaviour - it is on you to raise your son to be guided by it, which at his age may mean not allowing it to happen at all. There are times in which your son is going to need to know that regardless of how bored or curious he is, he cannot run.

As long I can remember if we started ‘I’m boooooorrrrred’ mum would cock an eye and say witheringly ‘only babies get bored...’z .

I'm new to Mumsnet though not to being a mother (I have four children). I thought these threads were for people who genuinely wanted advice or just someone to chat to. I've worked it out now- it's for setting up arguments and abusing each other in a completely random way. No wonder you're all so quick to take offence. It's not my idea of fun and l won't waste any more time on it. I certainly wouldn't recommend Mumsnet to anyone who actually wanted to learn anything.

It’s called debate and opinion. Ok sometimes it descends into fight club (and trollery) but there you go - free online, anonymous forum.

I do think parents who think their kids are so special that everyone will look on benignly as they screech, shout/sing, run, lie on floor are the worst type. I see how these types of kids grow up. Often at school pick up you can spot them as they come out of school scowling, barging past other kids and parents, throwing their bags at their mum or sad demanding a snack. Parents just laugh lovingly as if it’s cute. All the other parents are thinking “ Jesus Christ what an utter horror”. The bag throwing boy very likely used to be the toddler who was allowed to stand with his shitty shoes on a restaurant table to stop him having a tantrum.

I wonder how people would react if the child got injured, say a hot drink or food dropped on it. I guess the parents would be entirely to blame for this. However there will be some who would blame the restaurant for not making the place child friendly etc!

They would blame the restaurant, sue and have their sad horse photo in the daily mail.

CarolDanvers

Exactly honestly

Of course you can't have toddlers running around a restaurant!

Are people really so completely fucking stupid? Staff are carrying hot drinks and food. The child could be seriously hurt as could staff.

I have a toddler. A very lively one.

He doesn't get to run around restaurants. Ever.

Long time ago i was a waitress in a well known pizza chain and had this happen. It's bloody annoying when you're trying to work. Went over to the parents and asked them to keep the kids at the table as there were lots of staff carrying heavy, hot pans with pizzas in "and we wouldnt want an accident to happen". I think the tone of my voice indicated i wasn't amused 😂

For those of you just looking to argue,

I did mention over and over that when there is a risk to the child and others I understand. I wouldn’t want my child “running” around I’m not stupid. I do let him wander around though and I’m behind him.

I do “expect” from society to treat kids as kids so long as there is no risk and harm.

And no if my child can only sit in a chair for 10 minutes I WILL NOT deny myself the chance to be in a restaurant just because of intolerant adults who don’t know how to be adults. As long as I’m not infringing on their rights they can turn a blind eye to my child wandering around since I’m right behind him. And the odd loud noise while I manage him or non perfect etiquette while I guide him, is part of him being a member of this society. Again, so long as it’s not infringing on someone’s “rights”. I don’t give a damn about someone’s “perception” or “opinion”. I do however on their rights.

Secondly, I asked a specific question? If my child is sat on a table without shoes on, despite it being “bad etiquette”, would you judge me for being a bad parent, and why?

If the cafe or restaurant serves hot food or drinks, sit him down.

If he can't sit down, go to softplay or a play cafe.

There have been times when I've planned to eat out with my toddler and I've cancelled it because he's tired or having a bad day and I know he won't have the patience to sit down.

I don't judge no shoes but I judge parents who bring kids to eat out, who can't cope.

@MrsNotNice You literally said your child was allowed to run in shops and asked what we thought of that. Now it's all: oh he'd never be allowed to run, I'm not stupid, and I don't care what you think because his need to be loud, wander about, and explore other people's things is more important than everyone else, and if you don't like it, you're intolerant - but also would you judge me if he was sat on a table?

Yes, I would judge you for him being sat on the table. Tables are for food, not for bums (child or otherwise). Since you don't care about anyone else's view, though, not sure why you're asking.

It wouldn’t be that if the waiter spilled hot soup over the child. One of my pet hates is young kids running wild in restaurants or shops, no it’s not cute. Once in Majorca me and partner walking along the street. A young child about three was wondering on the road. I ran and took the child. Parents were sitting in a restaurant oblivious to all this. Dad came out, thanked me bla bla bla, end of but 10 min later the child came out the restaurant door again! Bloody waste of place parents. Sitting getting pissed.

I would probably judge. Bums go on seats here, that has been our expectation from day zero. If a child is sat on the table they can reach things that may be sharp, may be hot, may stain their or other's clothing, tables are slippy, they could slide and hurt themselves, or others, them sitting on the table leaves less room for others in the party, less room for table service too. Waitress would not be happy putting down drinks or hot food whilst a child is sitting on the table, you are disrupting their job too.
As you asked... l do hope that gives some indication of why i'd have a judgy mindset in that particular incidence, but... l don't see why you'd give a damn that I am judging. You don't seem the type.