..to think that, except in very special circumstances....

[BertrandRussell]

....you should not have a baby with someone you have known for less than, say, 5 years? And you should both be at least, say, 2 years away from the relationship with the parent of your other children?

"I think unplanned pregnancies happen quite a lot."

Especially on MN.

I can think of a couple of women I know who went into labour without knowing they were pregnant

Bloody hell! One is shocking enough, but two?

Men don’t stop being arseholes after 5 years. The also don’t stop being arseholes 2 years after your last relationship finished.

@Yabbers - while I agree with the first sentence, the OP specifically mentioned waiting until two years after the end of a relationship with the parent of your other children, not just the end of any old relationship. It's not just about learning if someone's a prat, but about wanting the best for the kids.

I broadly agree with you OP and I’m quite surprised to see that about half the other replies are agreeing with you too (albeit many, including yourself, now saying five years is rather too long).
Like one or two previous posters my main bugbear is women who “fall pregnant” as if this is just an astonishing surprise. I think that because there’s no longer a stigma attached to having babies out of wedlock women have become a bit careless. When it was still frowned upon (and I certainly don’t want to go back to the days of such stigma) women used two or even three forms of contraception to make sure they didn’t “fall pregnant”. For example, pill plus diaphragm.
I’d like to see women taking more control of their and their potential children’s future by abandoning this notion of “falling pregnant” as if it’s an act of fate outside their control. It’s not.

I was 42 when I met DH so 5 years wouldn't have been an option. We had the discussion within weeks. (And went for no more).

It’s not

Every time? Or just maybe are there times when it might actually be out of their control?

I think unplanned pregnancies happen quite a lot.

I don’t. I think genuine contraceptive failures are quite rare.

@BertrandRussell

I'm glad you agree 5 years is too long. I do think there's a big difference between two first time parents having a child together quite quickly when they're on the same page and both are willing to commit via a house, marriage etc and having kids with a new partner when you already have kids and haven't been separated from your ex that long. Just simply because, as I'm sure you'll agree, there's already kids to consider. Even more so if the man has kids he doesn't see for mysterious reasons. Big red flags there.

I totally get having a child early on isn't for everyone, but I can only speak from my positive experience. Luckily I'd known my partner in work for a while before we got together, and he was on board with committing. We purchased a home and moved in a month before DD was born and we're very happy as a family of 3. He's a great partner and dad. My previous partners of considerably longer, well, I definitely wouldn't have even entertained the idea of a child with them. But you live and learn and life now is great. It can work for some of us

UnaCorda are you suggesting the ex was abusive or DP?

DP hasn’t spoken about it at length, they’re split and he saw no need to keep going back to the past, but from what he has told me it seems that she would use sex as a tool iyswim. So they would get to a point because she had instigated it and then stop because she didn’t want to go further. She would then complain that DP apparently never wanted to go near her. He said that they had never actually had full penetrative sex, and he had history with other partners, so it wasn’t a case of both being inexperienced in any way iyswim.

I can sort of see that if you haven’t had a sexual relationship before then it’s still a learning experience esp in the beginning. But they were married for eleven years.

I think unplanned pregnancies happen quite a lot. I think there’s a difference between an “unplanned” pregnancy and a contraceptive failure.

I think that a lot of women do have sex without using contraception and then when they fall pregnant say it was “unplanned,” which it might have been in that they hadn’t planned to get pregnant they just hadn’t done anything to stop it. Newsflash, if you have unprotected sex then there’s a chance you will get pregnant. Don’t want to get pregnant? Then use contraception, but don’t just throw caution to the wind and then claim that it was “unplanned.

But that’s not the same as contraceptive failures which are very rare.

Like one or two previous posters my main bugbear is women who “fall pregnant” as if this is just an astonishing surprise.

But for a lot of women it IS a surprise

I feel like it’s such much drilled in to you at 15 that you’ll fall pregnant for as much as looking at a man, then by the time you get to your late 20s there are reminders that you better get cracking on, and by the time you’re in your mid 30s your fertility has so steeply declined that it could take AGES.

DP and I decided within weeks of meeting one another (in our mid 30s) that we had to have serious chats up front about what we wanted. 18 months later, we decided to “see what happens” and I got pregnant the FIRST TIME we had unprotected sex. It’s a very similar story for two of my close friends.

I think there is something to be said for the fact that so much is said about how hard it is to get pregnant that it sometimes is a surprise when it actually happens!

I think that a lot of women do have sex without using contraception and then when they fall pregnant say it was “unplanned,” which it might have been in that they hadn’t planned to get pregnant they just hadn’t done anything to stop it.

Yep, that was me!! I was told (after investigations in my 20s) I was very unlikely to become pregnant without fertility treatment. FF to my mid-30s, I was in an exclusive but fairly casual relationship, stopped using condoms and, surprise surprise, became pregnant. I was well aware of the 'risk' I was taking but as I wanted a baby (and could afford to bring one up by myself if necessary), I took that risk. Of course I told people it was unplanned - I was hardly likely to tell people 'yes, I know we were on the verge of splitting up, but hey, I was 35 and wanted a baby 🤷‍♀️' was I?!

Happily, within 4 years of meeting, we had two children and were married but even if it hadn't worked out, I would never have regretted having my beautiful daughter.

My experience of accessing contraceptive advice from doctors has - on two distinct occasions - been nothing more than duff!

If doctors are giving incorrect information, it should no surprise accidental pregnancy occurs.

My husband and I found out we were pregnant with our first after 4 months of dating.

That baby is about to turn 6 years old tomorrow morning and in that time we've got married and welcomed our second 7 months ago.

Essentially, you are blaming women for men being abusive and/or useless arseholes. Given that pregnancy is a risk factor for domestic abuse to begin, I doubt that waiting 3/4/5 or 10 years will change that. You can know someone for years and not really know them once you have children.

If I were a man I would not rely on a woman to be using contraception if a child was out of the question.

Essentially, you are blaming women for men being abusive and/or useless arseholes. Given that pregnancy is a risk factor for domestic abuse to begin, I doubt that waiting 3/4/5 or 10 years will change that. You can know someone for years and not really know them once you have children.

This is so spot on.

I can't help feeling so much of this thread is a disingenuous way to have a crack at women who have unplanned pregnancies. Many of us have pointed out we've had entirely, sometimes rigorously, planned pregnancies with partners we've known for a short time. It's not unusual.

Essentially, you are blaming women for men being abusive and/or useless arseholes.
No we're not

No woman is responsible for any man's actions. Ever.
She is responsible for her OWN actions.

If someone chooses to move quickly with a man who has a trail of children he hardly sees and exes he claims are crazy and unreasonable and still decides that he's the perfect person to have a baby with after 10 weeks together then they shouldn't be surprised when he turns it to be feckless.

If a man doesn't pull his weight around the house before pregnancy he is showing you his character. If a woman chooses to have a family with him, they shouldn't be surprised if he continues to do sod all around the house.

Neither woman is responsible for the man's actions in either situation. They are, however, responsible for choosing to have children with him.

It's not just about learning if someone's a prat, but about wanting the best for the kids.

@Valanice1989 yes, that’s my point. It doesn’t take 2 years to realise new guy is a twat.

“@Valanice1989 yes, that’s my point. It doesn’t take 2 years to realise new guy is a twat.”

It’s not about realising he’s twat. It’s about taking a breath before adding additional complications to an already complicated situation. Making sure existing children are ok before adding f extra ones. Seeing how he deals with parenting the children he had already.....

UnaCorda are you suggesting the ex was abusive or DP?

The ex. For using sex as a "tool" (or weapon) and withholding throughout the relationship, without being honest that that was always her intention.

Not sure how what I wrote could be read as applying to your partner but sorry if it wasn't clear.

WOW. This is so judgey and ignorant. My husband and I got pregnant (planned) within a year. We knew we were in it for the long run from day 1. We are still together years later, with happy, healthy children and we are honestly the happiest couple I know. I have NO regrets about it and would do it all over again in a heartbeat. When you know you know.

Actually now I think about it, I don’t think I know anyone who was with their partner for more than 5 years before having children! Except of course people who haven’t had children yet but still might. And I don’t know what you’re suggesting that this means? 5 years is an extraordinarily long time. Most people I know who are settled down met, married, and had children (more than one child!) in five years.