..to think that, except in very special circumstances....

[BertrandRussell]

....you should not have a baby with someone you have known for less than, say, 5 years? And you should both be at least, say, 2 years away from the relationship with the parent of your other children?

I don't agree with the numbers BUT I think you have said yourself the numbers are kind of not the point, and I have to agree with the underlying principle, which is that I do find many people astonishingly cavalier about mating and reproducing, which I must admit has only been reinforced since being on MN.

There are so many threads featuring some variation on "split from XH a year ago and met new DP, he moved in 9 months ago and I'm 6 months pregnant, still locked in mortal combat with XH over maintenance and access, DP's ex is kicking off, we're having trouble financially because DP pays such EXORBITANT maintenance for his three DC..." and I just want to go Admiral Ackbar on the whole thing.

My parents' small-C conservatism on many issues drove me batshit as a knowitall teenager and young adult, but I must admit that the conservatism they role modelled and instilled in me around intimate relationships is probably one of the greatest gifts they have given me. So many of the good things I have in my life have been possible or enabled by the fact that I was raised to see when you have a child, and who you have it with, as the most important questions of your life.

Most people must be an 'exceptional circumstance' according to your logic!

I met by DH 2 months after he split with his ex wife.... he had DC aged six.... moved in after six months...we’ve together 10 years married for five and have two DC together making our family of 5 complete.

Ours must also be exceptional circumstances too!

Men can become arseholes after 1 year together or after 10 years together. This is a really odd thread to start.

Bertrand isn’t this at least the second thread you’ve started about how long couples should be together before having children?

Broadly speaking I agree that if children are going to be brought into a relationship the relationship should be well established, happy, and committed but I also think it’s bizarre that you are quite so invested in proving this point to total strangers. I’m not quite sure what you’re hoping to achieve by starting multiple threads about this?

Interesting post. Family solicitor here. I would imagine if I carried out a survey of the last twenty years files, the divorce or separation rate in those who met and had a child within five years would likely be higher, than those who were together longer.

However, thinking about the worst cases I've seen, they tend to follow a long relationship, then children, then break up. At this moment I can't think of any relatively quick break downs which have ended in complete court process. Of course there is an initial blow up but they settle down quicker.

Absolutely no proper research or figures in that, just running over cases in my head.

No that’s ridiculous, dh and I married 10 months after we got together ( although we had been friends for a year before dating but and known each other vaguely for two years before becoming friends.
Our first child was born 15 months after getting married and we have had more dc since.
Been happily married for many years.

Well, I had a baby after 6 years with my ex....and he still turned into an idiot when I no longer suited him.

There is no magic number. Longer is better than shorter, I'll give you that. But life is too short generally to put that kind of restriction on yourself.

Much better would be if we all had to do a compulsory course at school in “how to spot an arsehole”

Why not, "How not to be an arsehole"? Why is it that we blame one partner for choosing to be with someone who turns out to be an arsehole more than we blame the arsehole themselves?

Or do I just like saying arsehole?

Off the top of my head I know of two women, together with their (now ex) partners 5+ years before they had their first baby. Both men turned out to be shit fathers (and husbands). One particularly so. Both of these women entered into new relationships and had children with their now husbands in less than 5 years. One of them fell pregnant after only 6 months. However, both of the second husbands are a million times better as fathers than the first two husbands. In fact I'd go as far as to say both these dads are brilliant and equally as brilliant as step-dads, fully taking on the children from their wives first marriage and treating them as if they're their own.

Also know another family, pregnant within first two years, mum had a 3 year old. First dad beyond shit, 2nd dad absolutely brilliant and you'd never know the eldest son isn't his.

Length of time means nothing. If a man is going to be a shit dad it doesn't matter how long a woman is with him for and unfortunately until the children come along there's really no way of knowing what anyone will be like as a parent.

Well, yes. I'm amused at the outrage at 5 years.

But you do know, this is dangerously close to.... right-wing ideology, right? Suits me down to the ground, but, it's a bit surprising given your ridiculously left wing views on education.

I think some people are missing the point.
Of course if someone is going to be a crap dad they'll be a crap dad regardless of how long he's with someone.
But if you wait a bit longer being with someone, it gives you more chances to discover red flags and you can think oh no I won't have kids with him he's not what I'm looking for.
So in principle I agree.
Of course there's always exceptions both ways, and some people just get lucky/unlucky.

Putting such strict rules on your life will only lead to frustration, disappointment and resentment. Just live your life and make the best possible decisions you can make at each given moment.
Just relax OP, life will happen whether you make the rules or not.

Adding to some posters above, I agree there should some focus on 'relationships' in lessons at school. Equip people with more tools around navigating relationships, looking out for red flags, how to stand up for yourself and be assertive etc

Why not, "How not to be an arsehole"? Why is it that we blame one partner for choosing to be with someone who turns out to be an arsehole more than we blame the arsehole themselves?

Because arseholes are vain creatures that rarely think they are in the wrong. Even if they did a course in “how not to be an arsehole” a true arsehole wouldn’t recognise themselves in the course material and wouldn’t think it applied to them.

I wouldn't dismiss your point out of hand - I think many people recognise what Lola describes. I just don't think arbitrary time limits are that helpful. Better to say that people (especially women) should prioritise having or building a good level of self-esteem and self-respect, and being a 'whole person' on their own (for want of a better phrase) without a partner, before coupling up. It should be about identifying good character and shared values.

I agree with you re blended families too, most of the time. It takes a rare combination of at least three exceptionally emotionally intelligent adults, plus an abundance of material resource, for it to work seamlessly. Not that common.

But if you wait a bit longer being with someone, it gives you more chances to discover red flags and you can think oh no I won't have kids with him he's not what I'm looking for.

Exactly. It's a bigger sample size so you can draw better judgements. Not foolproof, but infinitely better.

I “reproduced irresponsibly” by accident, I probably could’ve prevented it as maybe the condom failed due to my boyfriend putting it on and not me, I should’ve checked for holes/splits and gotten the MAP etc, it wasn’t ideal and I was 16 getting pregnant 17 giving birth, but I don’t regret having DD. Yes he turned out to be shit and I do agree with not having kids too soon, being careful with contraceptives, making sure you really know the person etc yanbu but on the same subject can we all agree that it’s pretty nasty to say things like
“You shouldn’t have got pregnant”
“Why did you breed with this asshole?” Etc as you can’t turn back the clock... I’m aware the thread wasn’t about that but I just feel it needs pointing out. I see such unhelpful comments on here regularly.

I agree that 5 years is excessive. I was pregnant and married within a year of meeting DH - we were no spring chickens and we just knew it was right! We're still together 15 years later.

there do seem to be a lot of women jumping in quickly with dickish men and being surprised when they turn out to be dicks out there.

As for the number of women 'falling' (god, I hate that phrase) pregnant on MN accidentally? Grow up.

@LolaSmiles - you missed out the part where, if the man's ex asks him to take care of the kids at any point, she's an awful mother for "dumping" them on him... and he and his new partner can't take them, anyway, because the house is too small, and there's no possible way they could have predicted that a man may be expected to look after his own children now and then.

I was married for 10 yrs before first child and he turned into a complete and utter twunt.

Took me 4 yrs after that to even consider a date - he on the to her hand took 30seconds, moved in and further child within 10 months, then at 18 months had left her!

I had a baby after five years with someone and he then showed his true colours. I wish sometimes my beautiful daughter had been from a ONS with him not a long relationship.

As for the number of women 'falling' (god, I hate that phrase) pregnant on MN accidentally? Grow up.

There is a pretty vocal contingency of MN that insists that birth control really doesn't work. I find it weird, and sad.

Women today are empowered to determine their own fate where childbearing is concerned in ways that 100 years ago they would have quite literally died for, but some women can't accept this gift of agency.

Yabu everyone has a different life you can’t place such strict rules.

FWIW DP’s ex very much believed in no sex before marriage. The result was that when they did actually get married it turned out she was a-sexual and it caused huge problems within the marriage pretty much from the outset.

What a hardship that must have been for her. Such self-restraint.

I actually think that's tantamount to abuse it's so willfully deceptive and misleading.