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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to call SS about my neighbour against their will?

158 replies

SinkGirl · 19/09/2019 13:42

Sorry, I am a bit shaken up right now.

DH and I were just on our way to pick our twins up from nursery and I saw a woman standing on the pavement outside an elderly neighbours house. He’s a sweet guy who always waves and says hello (but I’m so caught up in my own shit that I’ve never properly spoken to him which I now feel awful about).

Next thing I know, I see she’s picking him up off the floor - he had fallen and was hidden behind his car so I didn’t see him. I rushed over and his hands are covered in blood so I dashed home and grabbed a first aid kit while she got him indoors.

His house is in a terrible state. It obviously hasn’t been cleaned for many, many years. It smells strongly of ammonia. And there’s stuff everywhere. The neighbour who helped him said she wanted to call an ambulance but he refused.

He sat down in his armchair and pointed out the photo of his wife and said she died two years ago. Her stuff is still all over the lounge including clothes on an airer. He said he sleeps in the chair so he’s next to her photo and urn. It was absolutely heartbreaking.

He told me he’s 90. I asked if he has anyone who comes in to help him. He said no, “me and the cat like being by ourselves”. He said his daughter comes and stays every Saturday and leaves on Sunday but I don’t believe him. There were Mother’s Day cards on the shelf. If his daughter is visiting every weekend then she’s obviously not even able to clean the house at all - no judgement, I don’t know the situation at all, but it’s really not a suitable environment for anyone, let alone a frail old man.

I cleaned him up and he had a few skinned patches on his hands but nothing serious. He told me nothing else hurt but was very much of the “I don’t want to be a bother” school - although he was very grateful for the help, and very talkative, I heard all about how he was in the army, all about his wife.

The other neighbour was saying I always invite you for coffee but you never come - he said he can’t leave his cat. He does go out though, he even drives.

I can’t in good conscience ignore what I’ve just seen, but he says he doesn’t want any help. But is he just saying that? DH says I should try and contact his daughter rather than rushing in and calling SS as it’s their responsibility but how would I even do that?

His clothes were filthy and now covered in blood. I don’t know what to do.

I wrote down my name, DH’s name, our house number and my mobile number but i very much doubt he will come to us for help. I wrote it on an envelope next to his chair.

If he falls in there and can’t get up nobody would know until his daughter comes (if indeed that’s even true).

AIBU to call SS right now? He would know it’s me I’m sure, but I don’t know if he really doesn’t want help or is just saying that.

OP posts:
hatgirl · 19/09/2019 21:59

Does this man own his home? If he does & he is also deemed to have mental capacity then his GP surgery CANNOT get involved unless he wants them too, same with Social Services

That's incorrect now sorry.

Self neglect does now come under safeguarding, social services can be involved they just can't force someone to accept the services offered and they shouldn't just close the case because 'they have mental capacity' without trying to work on its them further.

Owning your own home makes no difference other you can't be evicted by an annoyed landlord.

Nearlyalmost50 · 19/09/2019 22:19

goldfinchfan I agree, care is variable, and it is down to budgets as well. So, everyone worrying he's suddenly going to get masses of intrusive care and/or get put in a home is probably worrying needlessly. But if he isn't having a care assessment, then he won't be getting anything much at all. Any service that goes in and sees him with bruises/hurt hands, hears about the falls, sees the dirt is likely to refer him on to adult care anyway (I would hope).

People can be autonomous adults but still have difficulties practically accessing food/care/know where to turn. Often people decline quite slowly and may think things aren't that bad- perhaps his eyesight is quite poor and he can't see the slug trails, or perhaps he doesn't want to bother anyone, or perhaps (like my gran) he always thinks others should come first and he's not important. I don't see how it takes away any autonomy for someone to be offered services. His autonomy (and ability to stay with the cat) will definitely decline if he falls again and hurts himself, ending up in hospital (where he's much more likely to get an infection/something horrible and just die).

goldfinchfan · 19/09/2019 23:16

Nearlyalmost50

I hope that this elderly gentleman can be open to receiving some kind of help.
It is very sad to see older people live in the conditions he is in.
I agree with you that being offered some help is not taking anything away from him.

I just hope that if that does happen that he will get the help he wants and not the type of elderly care I have seen.
15 mins twice day with a stressed and low paid carer isn't going to do it. Unless there is an agency or charity ? that can clean his house first and perhaps talk to his daughter and find out why she is also neglecting him with his clothes and housekeeping. We don't even know if she tries to help or not.

It is up to the OP what she decides but I did want to input that SS are not going to be the magic wand that we would all like to see.
But maybe he will be more open to some help after all. I hope so.
Things can change.
It may even depend on who it is that approaches him.

FiveFarthings · 19/09/2019 23:23

I’m a police officer and if I went to a house like this, on a welfare call for example, we would definitely be putting a report in to SS for referral. It can be difficult if the chap is assessed to have capacity as they can’t force him to have help/go into a home etc but at the very least it gets him on their radar. I definitely think you should speak to SS if you can and raise your concerns.

TooManyPaws · 19/09/2019 23:39

I would report. Even if Social Work can't help because of capacity, he could get help from Social Care, such as carers helping with personal care, fall alarms, meals on wheels, adaptations to the house and so on. They would also know of local charities that could help with the house or befriending. Do you have a local advice centre? We have regular drop in clinics with SW and SC in our area where you can discuss how to access help. There is a lot of help out there for older people, even if they do have capacity.

Jux · 20/09/2019 00:17

I think taking small steps, as you are, is the right thing to do. Atm you are a virtual stranger to him. If you're planning on popping in regularly then as he gets used to you, he will probably allow you to do a litle more for him. I'd start really slowly with washing up a cup, or a plate and cutlery if you bring him a meal. Don't even mention what you're doing beyond perhaps "I'll just give this a quick wash....." before pouring tea or whatever it is you do, and stop at that, don't allow yourself to just go on to wash up everything and clean the kitchen! Stop. Small steps.

SinkGirl · 20/09/2019 07:21

I’m not sure if there are any drop ins around here, I will try to find out today. I live in an area with a very large elderly population so I’m not sure if that means more resources or more stretched. We shall see.

When the twins are at nursery I’ll make some calls.

Obviously I don’t want him to be upset with me but that’s the least of my worries - I’m more worried about rushing in like a white knight to a situation I don’t fully understand and making things worse for someone who’s frail and grieving.

I agree that he needs to be checked on and at least offered help - if he completely refuses then at least he’s been offered it. I’m hoping deep down that the fire service members who attend are familiar with dealing with this and will be experienced with talking him into agreeing to some additional help. I think I’m going to follow up the online request with a call to their helpline number today to outline the situation - I couldn’t put a phone number down for him as I don’t have one, so I’m worried they might ignore it but hopefully not.

In all the immediate worries yesterday it didn’t occur to me but now I’m worried about how much he was bleeding from what were very small cuts - there was huge drops of blood to his door and blood all over his clothes. Not sure if that’s an age thing or a sign of a medical problem, maybe at his age he’s on blood thinners, I know my Nan was. But this is making me think maybe I need to call someone more urgently as if he falls and gets a small cut to his head or something it could be really bad. Will make some calls today.

OP posts:
Dutchoma · 20/09/2019 08:40

Jux is saying it so much better than I ever could.

Janus · 20/09/2019 09:10

The bleeding thing - if very much expect (at his age) he’s on blood thinners, this makes you bleed much quicker than normal, I don’t think it’s too worrying but you could call in and say you’d been thinking about how much he bled and wanted to make sure he was ok?

bubs80 · 20/09/2019 09:15

Let the local safeguarding board now can remain anonymous

TimeIhadaNameChange · 20/09/2019 09:26

This is probably going to sound really minor, but could you take his cat i if he does have to move? I'm just thinking that it would probably be a huge weight off his mind if he knew that the cat somewhere loving to move to.

SinkGirl · 20/09/2019 09:29

I would be happy to, but I’m not sure the cat would be happy - she’s very hostile and wasn’t happy when we tried to stroke her, she’s happy with him but didn’t like new people. With two existing cats and two toddlers I’m not sure she’d do very well but I would be happy to try.

I’ve left some messages in various places as no one is answering their bloody phones. Now need to go to bed for a while due to awful pain while the boys are elsewhere - will get back on it later today.

OP posts:
PuzzledObserver · 20/09/2019 09:39

I’m not sure if there are any drop ins around here, I will try to find out today.

In the nicest possible way - that’s not the way forward. A call to social services is.

They already know what dropins there are, what transport is available etc. You could spend hours researching, while they already have the information at their fingertips. They are also experienced at assessing and talking to people in his situation, know what the law is and all of that.

You could spend hours researching and get nowhere. Or you could make one phone call, and then the professionals are involved. Nothing to stop you popping in for a neighbourly chat now and then, to reduce the isolation.

Aaarrgghhh · 20/09/2019 10:52

Just ring social services and ask for advice. Umming and ahhing isn’t doing anything.

Hydrogenbeatsoxygen · 20/09/2019 18:31

Did anyone get back to you @SinkGirl?

mrsjoyfulprizeforraffiawork · 20/09/2019 18:52

Difficult one. I expect he is worried that if the SS etc get involved, they will make him go into care and he will lose his cat and his familiar home with all its memories for him. As I get older, I have more and more sympathy with people who feel like that.

SinkGirl · 20/09/2019 18:53

I spoken to Age UK and I’m going to call the social care helpdesk again on Monday (just got answerphone today, but only managed to try a couple of times). Followed up the fire service check, they’ve said they’re hoping to get to him ASAP to sort out his smoke alarms. They may well make a referral themselves.

I can’t just leave it, so I just have to hope it’s the right thing.

OP posts:
incognitomum · 20/09/2019 20:06

I hope he gets some support.

Hydrogenbeatsoxygen · 20/09/2019 21:02

I’m sure you have done the right thing @SinkGirl.

PookieDo · 20/09/2019 21:17

Look my experience of social care in a professional capacity is that staying in your home is option number 1. Moving to a care home is complex and long winded. Also if he has capacity he does not have to consent to it. Also they will not force someone out of their house because it is messy and unclean. But they will have to make sure it is a safe environment and they will try to put this responsibility of this onto his not so lovely sounding daughter!

But by leaving him on his own with no professional support he is at risk of falls. He may not be in good health. He needs a health and well-being assessment. He may need adaptations to his house. All of which a social care OT can and will do.

Personally I would look at this in the sense that this is bigger than your remit. You can do the social interaction side of things for sure, but the practicalities of adapting his house with rails so he doesn’t fall, checking his bathroom facilities are usable, making sure he doesn’t have any health conditions you cannot do

And yes the fire service will visit any vulnerable person at home and check their fire alarms, they will also have them down on a list of people to check during severe weather conditions

Hydrogenbeatsoxygen · 21/09/2019 07:22

Do let us know what happens to this old man @SinkGirl. I feel very concerned about him.

ChocoholicsAsylum · 22/09/2019 11:43

Sorry havent really been on and this might have already been said. I think we were talking about mental capacity? He actually might not have it if he is choosing to live like this with flies and rot everywhere and no clean clothes. Could also be severest depression. I have seen you have got help so well done x

incognitomum · 23/09/2019 18:00

How is he OP?

SinkGirl · 19/10/2019 10:13

Sorry, I couldn’t find the thread to update.

He is doing okay - the fire service have been round to sort out his smoke alarms and social services have been round to see him. He seemed quite happy about it, apparently it’s the same social worker who’d seen his wife previously. Just been to see him now and there’s no change in the house and obviously I don’t know what’s being done if anything, but at least the right people are aware.

I’m keeping an eye on him as best I can!

OP posts:
Wheat2Harvest · 19/10/2019 10:44

Leave him be. Calling in Social Services and have people intruding into his life is going to upset him and cause him to worry that he will be put in a home (this is a BIG thing for a lot of elderly people).

Let him know that if he feels he needs help with anything he can ring you (or someone who can pass a message to you) and you will get in touch with Social Care (make sure you say 'Social Care' and not 'Social Services') on his behalf.

I would be horrified if I were elderly and someone made a referral without my agreement. I think it would tip me into my grave, to be honest.