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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to call SS about my neighbour against their will?

158 replies

SinkGirl · 19/09/2019 13:42

Sorry, I am a bit shaken up right now.

DH and I were just on our way to pick our twins up from nursery and I saw a woman standing on the pavement outside an elderly neighbours house. He’s a sweet guy who always waves and says hello (but I’m so caught up in my own shit that I’ve never properly spoken to him which I now feel awful about).

Next thing I know, I see she’s picking him up off the floor - he had fallen and was hidden behind his car so I didn’t see him. I rushed over and his hands are covered in blood so I dashed home and grabbed a first aid kit while she got him indoors.

His house is in a terrible state. It obviously hasn’t been cleaned for many, many years. It smells strongly of ammonia. And there’s stuff everywhere. The neighbour who helped him said she wanted to call an ambulance but he refused.

He sat down in his armchair and pointed out the photo of his wife and said she died two years ago. Her stuff is still all over the lounge including clothes on an airer. He said he sleeps in the chair so he’s next to her photo and urn. It was absolutely heartbreaking.

He told me he’s 90. I asked if he has anyone who comes in to help him. He said no, “me and the cat like being by ourselves”. He said his daughter comes and stays every Saturday and leaves on Sunday but I don’t believe him. There were Mother’s Day cards on the shelf. If his daughter is visiting every weekend then she’s obviously not even able to clean the house at all - no judgement, I don’t know the situation at all, but it’s really not a suitable environment for anyone, let alone a frail old man.

I cleaned him up and he had a few skinned patches on his hands but nothing serious. He told me nothing else hurt but was very much of the “I don’t want to be a bother” school - although he was very grateful for the help, and very talkative, I heard all about how he was in the army, all about his wife.

The other neighbour was saying I always invite you for coffee but you never come - he said he can’t leave his cat. He does go out though, he even drives.

I can’t in good conscience ignore what I’ve just seen, but he says he doesn’t want any help. But is he just saying that? DH says I should try and contact his daughter rather than rushing in and calling SS as it’s their responsibility but how would I even do that?

His clothes were filthy and now covered in blood. I don’t know what to do.

I wrote down my name, DH’s name, our house number and my mobile number but i very much doubt he will come to us for help. I wrote it on an envelope next to his chair.

If he falls in there and can’t get up nobody would know until his daughter comes (if indeed that’s even true).

AIBU to call SS right now? He would know it’s me I’m sure, but I don’t know if he really doesn’t want help or is just saying that.

OP posts:
Sleepflower43 · 19/09/2019 16:32

You say he mentioned that he had served in the Army? Some Regiments have Support Officers for veterans. If you could find out which Regiment he served with they might be able to help.

dottiedodah · 19/09/2019 16:40

If you call the Doctors Surgery and explain to them what you have found they should send someone round to assess him .As far as I know no one can be put into a Care Home against their wishes .They should be able to provide a home help though and maybe some Meals On Wheels ?

goldfinchfan · 19/09/2019 16:41

Firstly OP you are a genuinely good person,

But my experience is that SS might do very little or even bugger all anyway.
So please don't think they will be the answer.
SS are so stretched like the NHS that it maybe they will not get involved and also if your elderly neighbour doesn't want to let the carers in they cannot force him to.
Indeed we all need to have that much control over our own lives.

You could just keep popping over and take a cup of tea in a Thermos flask and a packet of biscuits.

Over time he may then let you help him.

SinkGirl · 19/09/2019 16:42

I could certainly ask him that next time I pop over - he was talking about going out to Korea, I think he said his wife was pregnant so I guess his daughter is getting on for 70 herself depending how many children he has.

OP posts:
goldfinchfan · 19/09/2019 16:43

I am disabled and I do not want there to be a time that SS can just put people into a Home against their wish. it is not always the solution.

Just keep being kind and interested.
What you are doing is perhaps as far as he will allow

goldfinchfan · 19/09/2019 16:44

I don't know if there is a Meals on Wheels anymore. I think they just tell old people to stick a frozen meal in the microwave.
Does he have a microwave?
Indeed what can he eat?

Dutchoma · 19/09/2019 16:45

It’s lovely that you want to help him, but you must think carefully about how your ‘help’ will be perceived. He is a proud man, he has some autonomy left, do you really want to take that away from him? You have offered help, he has refused, the next door neighbours have confirmed that they are keeping an eye open. His daughter does come every week, so he will not be left dead for long - if he does die.
Social services will not be able to do anything he does not want doing, but you will make him feel anxious and, much as you don’t mean to, make his life more difficult than it already is.

Emilyontmoor · 19/09/2019 16:47

Please ring social services, this is a safeguarding issue and they have a statutory obligation to protect vulnerable old people. I really don't understand the reluctance not to involve them. This is about protecting him and supporting him. They are not big baddies who deprive people of rights and lock people away. They were wonderful after my MIL died, came assessed FIL, accessed us a network of caring professionals especially the Occupational Therapists who fitted equipment that gave FIL more dignity and mobility and made his care until we found the right home for him so much easier. If Social Services fitted smoke alarms ten years ago they probably assessed him at that stage as coping but that is a long time to elapse in terms of physical deterioration since they assessed his needs. This is their everyday experience, dealing with cases like his, they will be kind and caring not heavy handed. With all due respect you and the neighbours have not got the expertise to improve his quality of life.

Read the thread, nobody with actual experience of Social Services involvement, is saying it was anything but a positive experience. Obviously in relation to protecting children they get bad press one way or another but in terms of protecting old people, stretched though their resources are, they really can make a big difference to quality of life.

longtompot · 19/09/2019 16:56

My fil is recently widowed, two years, and is now living near us. He says he is fighting fit, but shuffles around the house and the smell of him and his house is awful. My dh spoke to our gp (who can't activly do anything as they are fils gp) but said the not cleaning or washing is a sign of dementia. He has a few other telltale signs (repetition of things he isn't sure if he's told us, 4 times in half an hour recently!)
I'd contact Age Uk and see what they suggest. Maybe his daughter is using the excuse of washing her clothes to visit him, and maybe he doesn't let her do anything? Aggression is another sign.

SinkGirl · 19/09/2019 16:56

Several years ago we lived in a flat and the woman in the flat below us collapsed. We had no idea until her employer came looking for her the next day - by the end of that day the police broke down the door. Paramedics worked on her for an hour and took her to hospital but she passed away. She was only in her early 20s and it still haunts me that I had no idea she was so unwell (anorexia) and could have helped her if I’d known. I really do believe neighbours should know each other and look out for each other but I know that’s uncommon these days.

I feel slightly better that his neighbour keeps an eye out for him. From talking to him today I feel like he would be very upset if I called SS. Maybe if I spend some time with him I could convince him to engage with some help.

OP posts:
360eyes · 19/09/2019 16:58

Didn't want to read and run.

I don't really have any advice, but just want to say how kind of you to look out for this man. It's such a sad situation and I hope he gets the help he needs. It's lovely to hear there are people like you out there watching out for other people in this situation. They get ignored too often.

I will echo what other people say though: If he doesn't want the help and has capacity, then there is little services can do unless there is an obvious risk to this man.

Hydrogenbeatsoxygen · 19/09/2019 17:05

For God’s sake, call Adult Social Care! How many more times do you have to be told. It’s not up to you to assess whether he is vulnerable, leave that to the professionals, it’s what they do. You sound very kind and caring, so for pity’s sake do the right thing and make that call.

SinkGirl · 19/09/2019 17:05

I am disabled and I do not want there to be a time that SS can just put people into a Home against their wish. it is not always the solution.

God I wouldn’t want them to be able to do that either - I said upthread one of my concerns is whether they could do that.

He is a proud man, he has some autonomy left, do you really want to take that away from him?
Of course I don’t. I also don’t want to sit by and watch a 90 year old man living alone, in utter filth and sitting in his own bodily fluids, liable to fall and hurt himself who only gets a visit once a week, if I could have done something to help.

I really don't understand the reluctance not to involve them
Do you not? I have half the people here saying call SS, half saying do not call SS, the neighbours saying they don’t think we should and, most importantly, him saying he prefers to do things on his own. I am torn between wanting to help him and respecting his own decisions. On one hand he seeks mentally competent, on the other he’s not bathing, changing his clothes and is cooking in a kitchen which honestly must be extremely hazardous to his health. His smoke alarm is bleeding and the neighbour says she knows he cooks with rancid fat because the smell is awful, and the state of the kitchen says she’s right.

I don’t want something awful to happen and to have done nothing, and I don’t want to make him feel bad either.

OP posts:
Hydrogenbeatsoxygen · 19/09/2019 17:08

You clearly have no idea about Adult Social Care. They do everything they can to keep someone at home, if that’s what they want. It’s ludicrous to think they will come along and put him in a home.

Adult Social Care are excellent, they really are. 🤓

SinkGirl · 19/09/2019 17:12

It’s ludicrous to think they will come along and put him in a home.

Maybe it is. You’re right, I have very limited experience which is why I don’t want to swoop into a situation I know very little about and start making decisions that will impact someone else without a bit of thought. In the short term I know the neighbours are aware of the situation and listening out. In the morning I will call Age UK and get some advice. If they tell me that calling SS is the right thing, that’s what I will do.

OP posts:
unwravellingagain · 19/09/2019 17:13

Oh, from what you've updated, can I suggest that you have a look online at Diogenes Syndrome? It's - kind of, perhaps - a subset of hoarding, but it's very closely associated with independent people not wanting to be dependent, and those attitudes hardening. There is a social worker/psychologist who has done a couple of really good posts on it.

But the most important thing to know is that when sufferers are hospitalised, they are much more likely to die than would be expected. I think, genuinely, they would rather be dead than dependent.

All of which makes it harder to help, but then his choices might not be the ones that you might assume.

unwravellingagain · 19/09/2019 17:15

Here is the blog I was talking about.

goldfinchfan · 19/09/2019 17:15

Even if you call SS if he doesn't let them in there is nothing they can do.
Also he won't trust you anymore.

I would go for the slowly approach of being friendly.
Take a flask of tea and some biscuits.

He is of sound mind and the SS have very few resources. So probably a waste of time

I had carers for many years there is not much they can do if he doesn't want them and even if he did they won't do much.

Fluffsmum · 19/09/2019 17:15

They won't put him in a home against his will if he has capacity to refuse. Social Services are the only people who can help him. Age Uk, the GP etc are only middle men in this scenario!

goldfinchfan · 19/09/2019 17:18

fluffsmum
what do you think the SS will do?
If he doesn't want them they cannot do anything

HiJenny35 · 19/09/2019 17:23

Sorry I agre with the neighbours. It's not uncommon that people do not want strangers, be that age concern or social services, sticking their noses in. He's in his 90's ok he likes to leave the house as his wife had it, its dirty and his hygiene isn't great but his wife died a couple of years ago he's still grieving and just wants to be left alone. Keep an eye on him, pop in for a cuppa, take over some biscuits, maybe talk to the other neighbours to see if you could take it in turns so he gets to talk to a real person ever other day but I'd leave him be.

HiJenny35 · 19/09/2019 17:24

He's explicitly said several times he doesn't want SS involved.

Girlwhowearsglasses · 19/09/2019 17:25

Call social services please. Hopefully he is already on their radar but unfortunately in my experience of very similar (elderly man on our road- except in this case not the friendly type- but similar in dying he was’ok’ and refusing help) even when you get to know the vulnerable person, and get them to agree to some help or a proper assessment, social services are very difficult to get engaged. In our case this man had gangrene and couldn’t even get to the loo, his electric meter was out of reach and he was sitting in the dark - you wouldn’t wish that in your worst enemy. We called an ambulance and they treated him and discharged him back into the squalor! In the end (after trying to engage his sisters unsuccessfully) we had to say we weren’t willing to help him practically any more as they seemed to think we would step in in an emergency.

It’s really difficult to make these decisions- but if you car do call them, keep calling them, keep a record and note of the social worker on his case, and jolly well hold them to account if they don’t asses him or do anything.

Ask for a needs assessment

SnuffleBadger · 19/09/2019 17:30

I would contact your local fire service for a fire safety check. They can be pretty persistent and have links with other agencies. They won't give your details and will go in with a "we were just in the area" approach if needed. If he is elderly and a hoarder he has a much higher chance of dying in a fire. Of course he is a right to refuse them entry but in my experience the fire service can often get in where social care/health agencies can't!

Hydrogenbeatsoxygen · 19/09/2019 17:41

Social workers are kind, caring people. On Mumsnet you get the impression they are in league with the devil.

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