To think social class plays a part in making friends

[Jadefeather7]

I know a lot of people will likely find this obnoxious etc but as I’ve become a mum and seeking to make mum friends I feel like I didn’t realise before how much background impacts on friendships. Most of my friends come from a similar background i.e. we are professionals who live pretty comfortably. I was at a coffee morning today and I found myself having to really think about what I was saying. I felt a bit odd talking about my job and lifestyle. I thought about just sticking to baby topics as that’s what we all have in common but there were things that I couldn’t say for example when the mums were talking about babies not sleeping I couldn’t say that we managed to sort out our baby’s sleep with a sleep consultant. I even felt embarrassed about the way I speak English and felt that people would judge me for being ‘posh’.

I do appreciate everything I have had and I don’t look down on people who don’t have those things but I couldn't help feeling like the odd one out today and feeling that I couldn’t really be myself. I’ve read threads complaining about it being the other way around i.e. mums feeling that NCT groups are too “middle class” but I’m finding the reverse. Has anyone else experienced this? Do I need to try to find friends who are more like me or am I just sheltered and needing exposure to different people? If the latter do I just talk freely and risk coming off like a show off/snob or do I need to constantly be aware off how I come across and keep things to myself?

I think it depends on how you know the group of friends.

My university friends and work colleagues are all of a similar class/background/level of financial security/education level to me.

My church friends and hobby friends are from a wide range of backgrounds because we made friends through where we were/what we are doing rather than who we are if that makes sense.

Religion and interests aren't really linked to a person's background in the same way that education and work are so you get a full range of people to get to know.

I never went to any baby groups/NCT groups and I avoid school parents because I teach at my childrens' school so I can't comment on that type of friends. My friends who have children are my friends, not the parents of my childrens' friends so the children aren't linked to how I know them, I guess.

This is what an awful lot of people don't have a choice about. Anyone who is an immigrant for a start, or whose parents were immigrants. Anyone whose job does not match their social background: academics with a working class background or a deckhand who is the child of academics. Anyone with a child with SN and/or unusually gifted.

You have probably never noticed how much thinking goes on around you because the friends that you think are exactly on your level are doing some invisible adapting.

@corythatwas
That is an amazing description of the privilege some people have!

I also come from the working class but would now be considered middle class (professional in the City).

Funny though that I've never seen that as me 'not fitting in to either' but as an advantage because I understand both.

I think I can fit in with both classes if I need to.

I tell my children to be themselves - its the only way to attract people who will value your for yourself and people who you will enjoy spending time with. There are too many people in the world - not everyone is going to like you so don't worry about it.
Think about what advice you would give to your child and then apply it to your own situation.
You will find lots of people who feel like you.

There's a difference between friends and acquaintances. My best "mum" friend has a hugely different background to me but it doesn't matter cos she's my bestie! (In fact she's also 12 years younger than me which wouldn't be weird if her mum wasn't only 8 years older than me 🤣)

But the groups you go to and people you meet, yes you might choose that more carefully if it makes you feel uncomfortable. I used to go to groups in different parts of town and get very different experiences.

Having said that I just went wherever u fancied and talked to anyone as I knew I wasn't going to be their friend permanently so who cares?

Laughing at the poster who says the class system is meaningless. The class system as evidenced by this thread is very much alive and kicking.

Emerald My parents are/were similar to your neighbour. Both middle class themselves but then both had the bad luck to get ill at the same time...so DBro and I grew up on a HA estate on free school meals.
I hated primary school and got horribly bullied for being 'posh'.

Jade you haven’t found your tribe I’m sure you will. I went to a local baby group when we were in London. No one really talked to me despite my attempts and the main topic of conversation was how to claim extra benefits by pretending to split up from partners . Didn’t go back.

I get on with everyone. Doesn't matter what class. I adapt my accent or topics of conversation to fit whichever group I'm with but I'm still me!

It's awkward. I've met a couple of mums at groups I liked and wanted to pursue a closer friendship with but because financially and class wise we are in different brackets it just got too uncomfortable. One WC and the other MC. I'm another in the social wilderness.

I do think WC have more fun. MC are stultifyingly boring and never seem to relax. Just take life too seriously and despite having more choices and more money don't seem to enjoy much of it.

Agree though it's about meeting individuals you get on with at a basic level and taking it from there. You may never "find your tribe", I certainly haven't and it's been a while now! But a couple of good mates, yeah.

OP it’s fine to be yourself but at the same time I think it would be polite to have a bit of a filter when it comes to talking about things you have for the baby that cost a lot of money, otherwise they might feel bad and/or feel like they can’t relate to you.

So with the sleeping conversation I would probably say something very general like “yes, it can be so difficult, can’t it” but otherwise generally keep out of the rest of the convo. If asked directly I’d probably say something like “we’ve been very lucky as we’ve not had too much trouble with DC’s sleep, on the other hand we’ve struggled more with breastfeeding/post-birth recovery/visitors/(insert genuine struggle topic here). That way you haven’t lied but also haven’t come across in a way that might get their backs up.

Absolutely, I don’t know anyone who lives in a Council property. All my friens are home owners and middle class.

This is part of the reason I find it hard to make friends.

I grew up firmly working class. Got into a good university and got a professional job (nothing to write home about or anything). Travelled around a lot. As such, most everyone I know is middle class.

I just can't relate. I go out with MC people and they talk about stuff I just don't give a shit about, house prices, career ladders etc etc.

But go out with working class people and I have fun but there is definitely a feeling that I think I'm 'better' than them (I don't).

Especially in the UK, it's hard.

As for this: "They are very brash and outspoken, they never eat proper meals or seem to have what I'd consider normal habits."

Please. That's not working class, that's being a chav, which is totally different. Never eat proper meals, JFC, I don't know any working class family who don't eat together every night.

At the coffee morning I attended this morning I felt like I was ignored by the other mums even though I tried to be friendly. They were friendly enough to a few other new mums who joined. The only reason I can think off is the way that I speak or perhaps my race. I’d rather not think it was the latter.
It sounds to me like you're looking for a reason to justify the perception that you're separate from everyone else.
Its probably nothing to do with how you speak or your race (massive jump much) and that you simply don't click with some of them.
It may also be worth considering, someone who is self censoring all the time to the point where they are adamant that people are judging their censored middle-class-ness is probably not going to come across as warm or authentic and that will affect relationship building too.

If you're so bothered about how your wealth and accent makes all these mums ignore you, maybe try to find a group more frequented by middle class mums and then you can chat about sleep consultants to your heart's content.

Hows this

"Yeah baby not sleeping suck, here is what I learned from a sleep consultant her we got desperate, hope it helps you too"

Talk about their families, what they enjoy to do, share your hopes and dreams for your kids.

Values trump social class.

Dig deeper.

NB I was aised lower working class, now have phd and my own business. You can talk to anyone if you focus on what you have in common rather than that which divides you.

@thatmustbenigelwiththebrie

In my family my mum would have made a nice welcoming meal and made up a bed for us to sleep on.

That's nothing to do with class though. My mum would do the same as yours and she's Southern Irish corporation house kid working class.

@Jadefeather7
I don't think it is a massive leap at all. I often see the parents of other races and lower classes sat alone while all the MC Mummies sit together and chat. That's at school groups like PTA, baby groups,nurseries,everything.

One mum at a baby group I attended said she wouldn't be able to speak to someone who was so "obviously oppressed" that they wear a "headscarf" without giving them numbers for women's refuges. Others thought that was a bit much but agreed they'd have very little in common. The organiser was asking how we thought we could increase diversity so she could get some funding for the class from a charity. We were all professionals earning 40k+ a year ourselves before we even take our partner's income into account. We paid something like £5 a session to have the room and contribute towards snacks. We didn't need funding.

Sorry that last post was @LolaSmiles

I don't think it matters. Or at least it only matters if you make differences awkward. Friends don't have to have everything in common. It's interesting to see things from others perspective. I have friends who work as cleaners and friends who have super glamorous jobs but ultimately we are all human, and I have learned things about the world I may not have otherwise. I'm quite open about being broke though. If my new friend talked about a sleep consultant I would say that's interesting, I have never heard of that-what did they say? Im not embarrassed that I cant afford it myself.
The only thing that makes crossing class barriers hard is when a) people act all awks about others having more or less, and when people who actually have lots of money moan they are skint. Other than that, open your mind!

I think it's especially hard if you don't quite fit. I'm from a v typical middle class background and now have professional job/high income. I live in a naice village but the other mums are not really like me, they are all shiny looking exercise buff types who looked brilliant again about 3 weeks post partum, who spend a lot of time & money on grooming & drive fancy cars etc. I'm a bit of a scruff tbh, could afford the grooming easily but can in no way be arsed, and don't like spending a lot on cars etc so drive a bit of a banger... so I don't really have much in common. I'll happily chat to anyone but feel a bit stuck out sitting with some other mums who struggle financially as they talk about worries I've never had so while I sympathise it's obvious I'm not in the same boat. They also didnt earn a lot so have mostly opted to become SAHM for financial reasons, as a WOHM I have a v different lifestyle so less in common.

I think we make friends with people we are around.

I was brought up working class and have been during my young adult life, I had my DD quite young (22) and was shunned at baby groups.

BUT I went on to university and am now a trained professional, looking to buy a house.

I have found I do socialise with more professionals/middle class people now my social circle has widened.

I think it's more about opportunities to meet and connect with people.

@LolaSmiles You can figure out if you click with someone after you have tried to have a conversation. When I walked in there were two ladies that had just walked in before me. I went up to them and said “Hello, How are you? Is this the x group? I’m X nice to meet you” and then they carried on making small talk amongst themselves (totally ignoring me if I tried to chip in and one of them would not even glance at me as you would to make the other person feel included) I don’t think you can put it down to not clicking.

It's people not class. You get arses in all classes, attention seekers, virtue signallers, snobs, etc.

I'm from a traditional northern working class background, father was a shop worker, mother was a secretary. We had no money, never went on holiday, had an ancient car that always broke down, lived in a tiny house, etc. I was best friends with one of our neighbours, father was a solicitor, mother was a SAHM, always had a new car first day of new registration, 2/3 holidays per year, large house, etc. Our parents became friendly because of our friendship. There was never any snobbery, one up-manship etc - they never rubbed our noses in their wealth and lifestyle. My parents were never invited over when they first got a new sofa or a colour TV or a new car - they never did that "show off the new stuff" thing at all. They were very quiet and aware of their lifestyle, and respected our lifestyle. If we went for a day trip to the seaside (our only form of "holiday"), they were always genuinely interested, always asked about it, and never turned the conversation around to showing off about their last skiing holiday or whatever.

As professionals, we consider ourselves middle class, but we're still working class at heart. We do middle class things, like skiing, lots of holidays, cruises, new cars, detached house, etc etc. Most of the people we socialise and work with wouldn't have a clue, because, like my best friends parents', we don't go around showing off or attention seeking. We've never put a single holiday photo on facebook.

My OH has a lifelong friend who is working class through and through. He's got a massive class chip on his shoulders. Always trying to be the big "I am" making himself into something he isn't. Rather than buying an average car, he has to have something special so buys old run down "posh" cars like BMWs, Mercs etc that are so old and past it, they never last more than a few months. The other month his Facebook page was plastered with pictures on a cruise - it turns out he went on a bargain basement 2 night "repositioning" cruise that didn't actually stop anywhere. For weeks afterwards, all he talked about was his cruise, making it out like it was some kind of millionaire's world cruise. My OH has known him so long, he "understands" him and puts up with the bragging etc - it's just a lifetime of insecurity, but he really wishes he would just accept who he is as he is constantly losing friends due to the big "I am" attitude and trying to be something he's not.

Friends don't have to have everything in common.

I agree. Nice friendly people are nice friendly people whatever their class, occupation, social standing, etc. Self centred, opinionated, arrogant, arseholes are the same whatever class, occupation or social standing. Having things in common is a good opener, i.e. meeting new people at a school gala, village art show, or gym, but if you're on the same wavelength, that soon becomes irrelevant. The key is moving on as soon as you realise you're not on the same wavelength rather than trying to fit in - square peg and round hole and all that. If you meet "your people" you know instinctively - if you don't get that feeling, it's time to make apologies and move on and put them in your "acquaintance" box rather than "friend" box.

That's not working class, that's being a chav, which is totally different. Never eat proper meals, JFC, I don't know any working class family who don't eat together every night.

Exactly. Lots of people seem to have the wrong idea about "working class". They're completely different from the "chav" class and the "underclass".